News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[smf]

 

It is unfortunate that the FPGA in the V2 is too small for the full-featured Apollo Core. However, please understand that this isn't a concern to Gunnar.

So i have been ripped off twice again and sits on hardware for a fortune that will not be fully functional for me just like the V600? ;(

I knew i should have stayed away from it when i bought the second card but i was even more stupid when i bought the third one.

[grond]

So i have been ripped off twice again and sits on hardware for a fortune that will not be fully functional for me just like the V600? ;(

I knew i should have stayed away from it when i bought the second card but i was even more stupid when i bought the third one.

I don't think you are entitled to get the full-featured Apollo Core for free just because you bought the V2. You got what you paid for and you even got free updates you didn't pay for. The next update will give you an FPU that is faster than any 882 alongside the integer unit that is faster than any 060. I can't see what's the rip-off here.

[OlafS3]

I don't think you are entitled to get the full-featured Apollo Core for free just because you bought the V2. You got what you paid for and you even got free updates you didn't pay for. The next update will give you an FPU that is faster than any 882 alongside the integer unit that is faster than any 060. I can't see what's the rip-off here.

He moans that his Vampires are not big enough to include all features in hardware

[wawrzon]

So i have been ripped off twice again and sits on hardware for a fortune that will not be fully functional for me just like the V600? ;(

I knew i should have stayed away from it when i bought the second card but i was even more stupid when i bought the third one.

to each his own. if you couldnt wait, its what you are being left with. contrary to you and probably some others customers constantly banging their doors, intead of hoarding stuff and trying to get hold of any new release you might have remained supportive for apollo project from the distance while waiting for it to unfold and ripe to reflect your expectations. i do.

certainly, developing new features and polishing old ones doesnt render delivered product any more unusable than it was at the time of release. i think it was clear up front, that the team will utilize sales to upgrade their proposition eventually. demanding that the upbringing needs to quit at the moment of your aquisition, in order to preserve its value is unrealistic and rather asocial. live with your choices.

[kolla]

@Chucky:  

If you were to implement the integer CPU, an FPU, an MMU, and the chipset, in which order would you tackle those?  

First CPU and MMU - the MMU is the uttermost important, now you can already attract an audience and developers far beyond the Amiga realms.

Then FPU.

Make sure this runs really well, and gets tested and used with a range of operating systems and hardware. Not just Amiga.

Amiga chipset is already implemented several times, so I would initially just use what exists, Minimig AGA. Other platforms use their chipsets, or implement them on FPGA as well.

Then have the "Amiga team" extend and improve AGA core, and the "CPU core" team add extra features to CPU, FPU, MMU, whatever, _in communication and agreement_ with core developers of all the involved 68k platforms.

Well - this is how I would have done it.

[kolla]

He moans that his Vampires are not big enough to include all features in hardware

But it is.

[smf]

He moans that his Vampires are not big enough to include all features in hardware

No, i dont care about features i will not use. I moan about the slow development.

I hate it when people beg to open source stuff but here it might be kind of suitable.
Maybe someone with the interest and knowledge to build an 68k cpu could complete it and make the V2 fully functional and gunnar can fullfill his dream and play with this ammx stuff etc. Everyones happy

[kolla]

The next update will give you an FPU that is faster than any 882 alongside the integer unit that is faster than any 060. I can't see what's the rip-off here.

Let's see what the faq says these days....

Do Vampires have a FPU ?
A: The implemented FPU is a 68060 compatible FPU. FPU is currently disabled and is a WIP.

Various teases and hints have said "HW 040/060 FPU", but I guess this is not for 2.7 then.

[TrashyMG]

Let's see what the faq says these days....



Various teases and hints have said "HW 040/060 FPU", but I guess this is not for 2.7 then.

It is for the V4 vampire, which will likely release before Gold 3 hits.

The V2 obviously can't fully implement it.

[kolla]

It is for the V4 vampire, which will likely release before Gold 3 hits.

The V2 obviously can't fully implement it.

The FAQ entry was there long before V4 was announced, and it does not say anything about this being V4 specific, it says "Vampires", as in plural, which certainly suggests more than just V4.

[kolla]

All the problems with the Apollo Core project have their base in one thing:

BAD COMMUNICATION!!!

And there is no "language barrier" to hide behind.

[kolla]

So - V2 - what is the reality?

The teaser videos showing V2 with "hardware 040/060 FPU" running Quake etc, is that not the kind of FPU that supposedly does not fit into the V2 FPGA?

[TrashyMG]

So - V2 - what is the reality?

I think it was invented just to annoy you...

The teaser videos showing V2 with "hardware 040/060 FPU" running Quake etc, is that not the kind of FPU that supposedly does not fit into the V2 FPGA?

It doesn't fit, there is a small subset of FPU functions on Hardware the rest is being done by an 68080 optimized version FEMU made by Jari.  That of course is the V2. The V4 won't need FEMU as it will have the full fledged FPU in the core.

All the problems with the Apollo Core project have their base in one thing:

BAD COMMUNICATION!!!

And there is no "language barrier" to hide behind.

Of course, they're a small team focused on getting things done and updating pages and wikis takes time out of development work.

[kolla]

It doesn't fit, there is a small subset of FPU functions on Hardware the rest is being done by an 68080 optimized version FEMU made by Jari.

So "hardware 040/060 FPU" is not true, and it really relies on FEMU.

FEMU is by default in the provided Kickstart? Can it be disabled and enabled by the user?

What does this mean for AROS and EmuTOS? Would they require their own emulation implementations?

[OlafS3]

First CPU and MMU - the MMU is the uttermost important, now you can already attract an audience and developers far beyond the Amiga realms.

Then FPU.

Make sure this runs really well, and gets tested and used with a range of operating systems and hardware. Not just Amiga.

Amiga chipset is already implemented several times, so I would initially just use what exists, Minimig AGA. Other platforms use their chipsets, or implement them on FPGA as well.

Then have the "Amiga team" extend and improve AGA core, and the "CPU core" team add extra features to CPU, FPU, MMU, whatever, _in communication and agreement_ with core developers of all the involved 68k platforms.

Well - this is how I would have done it.

it might be that MMU attracts users outside amiga community but you miss the point that the apollo/vampire was designed for amiga users (or former amiga users) primarly

[midway]

I have thought about getting a vampire and finally did for the 600, as there is nothing comparable available. For the bigger miggies the 2 and 4000 i think keeping the tekmagic and the cs will be better for my needs. Now, winuae has been emulating fpus without noticeable problems. Including the integrated ones ie 68040 and 68060. Can the routines used for this not be implemented in the vampire core?
I am not an electronic engineer but correct me if I am totally off here