News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[Chucky]

Difference heer is that Gunnar more or less say that his product is thebest, no flaws. it is the ULTIMATE one..

however.  it might be pretty awesome.  but no it is not the ultimate one and when people asks about stuff we had for 20+ years.. the %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm starts.
it is all like a religious sect about a very VERY hyped product.  DO NOT SAY NO TO THE LEADER.

What i have the issue is like the thread:

* Compatible with 68040/68060 while it isn't. it sure looks like it.. but not compatible.

* it is closed..

* They are basically searching for partners.  but any partner should just accept and do not ASK. (as it might be off topic.. etc)

* you say: there is NO MMU! answer is: YES IT IS! but.. closed.. (so.. no MMU!)

and they let vampire V1 users in the cold when v2 was out..  V2 was released  you will get 080, the most compatible cpu,  AGA  and fpu.
then, suddenly. no fpu.  until someone made a sofwareeulation. now parts of it will be there. but not all.  as there is no space suddenly. (as it apparenlty is filled with stuff noone asked for)

all my stuff is open and free, just add it yourself. you do not need to ask.  maybe say what you want to add so we can agree of a method of implementation..  this is closed stuff.  then you really need to take the input

for my stuff.  well. do your changes, do a pullrequest and if it looks ok.. I will accept it.  if you do not accept my deny, do a fork..  done. problem solved

but my stuff sure ISN'T the greatest.. code is messy (as donemostly while drinking beers)  but can be changed by more or less anyone

As told many times: if this was a 68060 compatible solution (and also not a one man show).  damn I would close my eaglewindow on my left screen and redo all with that now..


remeber.. this ALL started as I just told that they should add MMU!  it ALL created this %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm.   DO NOT ASK FOR STUFF!

[TrashyMG]

DO NOT SAY NO TO THE LEADER.

Ah yes, first rule of the Apollo Cult...

* Compatible with 68040/68060 while it isn't. it sure looks like it.. but not compatible.

Okay, you have any proof of said incompatibilities out side the tired FPU or MMU argument? It's striving to be fully compatible. the FPGA nature of the core allows updates to said core.

* it is closed..

Just like most processors, supported instruction sets and such are openly documented.

* you say: there is NO MMU! answer is: YES IT IS! but.. closed.. (so.. no MMU!)

I'm sure it could be documented in the future when the core is more solidified.. (see my turn to be dismissive)

and they let vampire V1 users in the cold when v2 was out..  V2 was released  you will get 080, the most compatible cpu,  AGA  and fpu.
then, suddenly. no fpu.  until someone made a sofwareeulation. now parts of it will be there. but not all.  as there is no space suddenly. (as it apparenlty is filled with stuff noone asked for)

The original vampire was never intended to be a commercial item, just happened to become one after the fact. And the FPU argument again... how many times are you going to revisit this thing. FPGA can get updates, gold 2.7 HW+SW hybrid solution is quicker than anything else out there. Then you will try and say it's not out yet...

all my stuff is open and free, just add it yourself. you do not need to ask.  maybe say what you want to add so we can agree of a method of implementation..  this is closed stuff.  then you really need to take the input

for my stuff.  well. do your changes, do a pullrequest and if it looks ok.. I will accept it.  if you do not accept my deny, do a fork..  done. problem solved

but my stuff sure ISN'T the greatest.. code is messy (as donemostly while drinking beers)  but can be changed by more or less anyone

As told many times: if this was a 68060 compatible solution (and also not a one man show).  damn I would close my eaglewindow on my left screen and redo all with that now..


remeber.. this ALL started as I just told that they should add MMU!  it ALL created this %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm.   DO NOT ASK FOR STUFF!

Okay....

Is this an FPGA solution, are you doing processor design? or is it just some accelerator using the limited stock of existing processors that will likely be very scarce to source in the near future?

[Chucky]

Ah yes, first rule of the Apollo Cult...

yeah!  THAT you notice.. for sure!

Okay, you have any proof of said incompatibilities out side the tired FPU or MMU argument? It's striving to be fully compatible. the FPGA nature of the core allows updates to said core.

How about read in the threads here.. a 3.9BB4 setup that works on *ALL* amigas indpendent of cpus fails on vampire..  after working with it for long I just ditched it..  actually found my Vampire today looking through my scrap-box..

Is this an FPGA solution, are you doing processor design? or is it just some accelerator using the limited stock of existing processors that will likely be very scarce to source in the near future?

no I am not. but if it would be open. there would be some kind of community. always someone actually adding..  and there have been many request of JUST FPU and MMU they have been denied.  AND also users asking for it. threatend of blocking or even blocked on the forum.
it is a horrible dictatorship that destroys this product that could be the solution for the cpu-shortage there is.

Actually..  I do not know so many advanced users using vampires/080.   I know a lot of people using it in thir A600 for whdload.. they haven't even connected the HDMI cable. (same on A500..  as it adds a way of getting HD pretty nicly)

and oh!  people run sysinfo and doom/quake

but even if I know a lot of coders (ok mainly democoders!)  NONE of them use a 080.. and I met people at A32.  walking around vampirepeople saying to them "yeah it is nice" etc.  but when being alone from then.  "but..  no MMU why should I do programming wityout the tools I had for 20 years)

It is the CONSTANT attack of people asking for stuff that is so damn scary!  this thread is a perfect example of it.  YOU SHOULD NOT SAY ANYTHING BAD! YOU SHOULD NOT ASK! YOU OBEY!

and now searching partners with that attitude?

damn so sad that all nice stuff we have on the amiga fails of..  attitude or managment. (and as it always closed and the amiga HAD it with closed stuff)
 and then dies of it in the end...

[soviet]

I don't know much about that mmu and fpu stuff, but what i see for sure is that they are no other options for a plain Amiga 500 to get that amount of upgrades and features for the price point the vampire 2 offers.

For example when i purchased it theres no networking.

But now i got the sdnet support on the core 2.5, the module for cost 5 USD that kind of upgrades are quite nice and even unsuspected for me.

I don't have see much products that offer this kind of flexibility that you can just do a download an upgrade your hardware.

Thanks to the vampire i could get back on the Amiga, apart from using an emulator that was i was doing before.

[Chucky]

YES  you are right.. and THAT is why it is so damn sad that they do not listen..

this could be the best thuing there is.  hardware is totally AWESOME..

problem is the strange path they are taking, totally forgotten every damn issue we had whe there was the SLIGHTEST change in cpu or chipset register.

I mean. if it was ANY motorola cpu done perfect  AGA done exact and RTG and AHI ..   it would be so damn freaking awesome.

but trying to do a "new amiga" introducing new ways of software to fail.  is just so sad..  Sorry but noone will use their amiga as their main platform again.

AMMX etc etc will not be used as i would guess 90% of all software we use, the sources have been lost forever and cannot be re-written or recompiled.
or they need to be rewritten, but reember WITHOUT using the debuggingtools people are used to......)

new screenmodes and stuff in chipset later. NO softtware will support it. NONE.  NADA!  but with RTG we have software already that supports it.
not available in RTG API!.  well create a new API for it. let more peole add stuff that way. (Warp3D etc etc)

16 bit audio. same thing there.. NO software supports it..   AHI is the solution.


so if they just listen it would be an awesome product..  


so it is so sad.  it could be so, so awesome..   the vampire that is.

and this offer of licesing out for HW developers?  well.  they just say MMU and %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm starts here AND on a1k..  it is not accapted to ask about things.  HOW can you then start a cooperation when there are tension the first 10 minutes over a legit question!.

[Chucky]

(even IF apparently asking for a MMU in a cpu. in a thread of a cpu-replacement is ..  eh.. OFF TOPIC apparently)

[soviet]

I'm sure they are going to fix most of the issues, this things take time.
Waited almost a year to have the vampire on my hands after preorder.
So patience is the name of the game.

[Chucky]

well.. not if they ban you asking for a function..  etc..


takes times. OH YES!  I know it does..  but then (shortend):

1. oh. FPU would be nice
2. NO!  NOONE USES IT!
3. Eh. I do?
4. BAN!

is the wrong way, instead of:

1. Oh FPU would be nice.
2. Does anyone use it?
3. yeah!  I do!
4. well.  if there is enough requests maybe..


so it is the attitude.. it is so sad. Gunnar might be a very intelligent person (and doing this. he must be)  but..  social and contact with its users..  well doesn't work)

I met Majsta etc at Amiga32.. we had a short talk. and he was nice to talk to.  and I think he understood my point.    it is the persons around, not listening that does the damage.

it can do so much damage being a big ego and not take input. you do not need to implement all.  but you do nto need to say that your product is the bestm if noone can even .. eh. use it?

[utri007]

I have always wondered why people in Amiga scene want to comment things that they are not interested? Previous example was Amiga OS4, every thread got tens of post from MorphOS people who are not interested Amiga OS4.

Seems that Vampire is now in that position.

I'm not interested Vampire, develobment took wrong course. For me that is end of story. I usually just don't read Vampire threads.

What is wrong with you people?

Only thing wich I have against Vampire team, is that they named their product to Apollo. Now it is very annoying to look anything (real) Apollo accelerator related from internet.

***************************************************************
There should be limit how many times one person can comment to one thread.
***************************************************************

Commenting 100 posts of nonsense is just pointless and ruins interesting news threads.

[TrashyMG]

YES  you are right.. and THAT is why it is so damn sad that they do not listen..

It's not that they don't listen, it's just the goal of this project has a long term goals, and it may be different than what everyone else wants. But full compatibility is part of that long term goal.

problem is the strange path they are taking, totally forgotten every damn issue we had whe there was the SLIGHTEST change in cpu or chipset register.

It's why it's a living project, the end user tests things, reports back issues and hopefully they work out the problem... literally there are people testing the hell out of the beta cores.

I mean. if it was ANY motorola cpu done perfect  AGA done exact and RTG and AHI ..   it would be so damn freaking awesome.

That is essentially the goal of the Gold 3 core update...

but trying to do a "new amiga" introducing new ways of software to fail.  is just so sad..  Sorry but noone will use their amiga as their main platform again.

AMMX etc etc will not be used as i would guess 90% of all software we use, the sources have been lost forever and cannot be re-written or recompiled.
or they need to be rewritten, but reember WITHOUT using the debuggingtools people are used to......)

Honestly I was about to get a Furia when I saw information on the Vampire... the concept of writing code for AMMX and breaking ground a new 68000 architecture with 64-bit instructions had me intrigued.

new screenmodes and stuff in chipset later. NO softtware will support it. NONE.  NADA!  but with RTG we have software already that supports it.
not available in RTG API!.  well create a new API for it. let more peole add stuff that way. (Warp3D etc etc)

SAGA uses RTG... it works just like a Picasso device... RTG software works fine without any tweaking on the Vampire.

16 bit audio. same thing there.. NO software supports it..   AHI is the solution.

It's fully Paula compatible, and likely will have an AHI support, the team consists of people with driver writing experience.. not sure where the argument is.

so if they just listen it would be an awesome product..  

so it is so sad.  it could be so, so awesome..   the vampire that is.

and this offer of licesing out for HW developers?  well.  they just say MMU and %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm starts here AND on a1k..  it is not accapted to ask about things.  HOW can you then start a cooperation when there are tension the first 10 minutes over a legit question!.

Well it IS an awesome product, only people I hear complain about it are people that don't own one. I suppose I never experienced the Fast 68060 or PPC accelerated era of Amiga,  I just played games from floppy drives. The Vampire gives me something I never had, so it's awesome for me. As for the licensing issue, it's Gunnar's project, he hopes to have an ASIC created eventually that could reach more moderns speeds, I can see why he wants to protective of it, but still want to give something to the community, even if that community has people that feel threatened by it... so...

[Chucky]

That is essentially the goal of the Gold 3 core update...

no.  they apparently changes stuff.. so not FULL AGA done exact!
done exact means ALL restrictions mustbe there, AND all bugs! as it might be used in.. well.  demos etc.

Honestly I was about to get a Furia when I saw information on the Vampire... the concept of writing code for AMMX and breaking ground a new 68000 architecture with 64-bit instructions had me intrigued.

I got my Vampire as I guessed it sould be the killerthing..  and I got a nice offer so yeah I take it now.  I will get the fpu etc later..

this however seems not to fully happen.. I guessed I could make an A500 an awesome AGA demomachine later.. but. .no.
and it should be so compatible.. it wasn't. it ended in yes.. it runs sysinfo nicly.. but.. nah. this doesn't even feel amiga. (and this comes from me using WINUAE mostly when coding)

SAGA uses RTG... it works just like a Picasso device... RTG software works fine without any tweaking on the Vampire.

well yes!  but they also call the AGA addons "SAGA" just to confuse even more.. and that will just introduce more issues.  

It's fully Paula compatible, and likely will have an AHI support, the team consists of people with driver writing experience.. not sure where the argument is.

no it isn't as they apparently added stuff. and.  apparntly via chipset..  sigh!  WHYYYY!..

Well it IS an awesome product, only people I hear complain about it are people that don't own one. I suppose I never experienced the Fast 68060 or PPC accelerated era of Amiga,  I just played games from floppy drives. The Vampire gives me something I never had, so it's awesome for me. As for the licensing issue, it's Gunnar's project, he hopes to have an ASIC created eventually that could reach more moderns speeds, I can see why he wants to protective of it, but still want to give something to the community, even if that community has people that feel threatened by it... so...

I own an V500 so I have tested it.  and.. it is not in my box of "well  crap pcbs" haven't even bothered to remove the CF adapter on it


if this was in the beginning of 2000 it would be aswesome.. now it is too late for the new cpustuff etc.

Would ANYONE accept that people did changes like this on the C64?  not if there is not "go64" mode   faster cpu for crunching etc maybe. (butthat is done on a PC today..)

Anyway.  it is time to stop..   vampire fanatics will never understand my point, I understand theirs.. but their hope will fail as the team apparntlty does not want the programmers to use their platform not suppling the possability of using their debugtools.

only difference with the PPC I got in my Amigas (both of them) is that the 080 doesn'tneed to switch to a different cpu and flushing caches etc but the new stuff will be there. unused and sad.

so number of software supporing the 080 stuff I guess will be aprox the same as the PPC. (and that is very low.  damn I should sell my CSPPC and BPPC while consuming space making you need to softwareemulate other stuff you MIGHT use..

same as 68040/68060 library. but THAT is bad..  FPU emulator is not 68040/68060.library then it is ok...  weird..

his project. sure.. yes!  true.. it IS!  if he want to do bananas shooting out the screen every 10th minutes. he can do that.   but if someone thinks that is a bad idea maybe not be angry of it.. especially when asking for cooperation..

[Iggy]

@Kolla

You where in the frontline of FPU fighters, mentioning it in every needed and unneeded topic, ranting about it, demanding....now you have some other life goal ?

No, I'd still like a better GPU solution than the half assed one that the V2 has.
And when the V4 is actually available, THEN you can tell me what it features, because right now that's meaningless.

In the meanwhile, fanatics like you are the people than ought to be banned.

[sean_sk]

I met Majsta etc at Amiga32.. we had a short talk. and he was nice to talk to.  and I think he understood my point.    it is the persons around, not listening that does the damage.

LOL. Majsta wasnt at Amiga32.

[Plaz]

LOL. Majsta wasnt at Amiga32.

Maybe it was an FPGA-not-quite-100%-compatible version of Majsta?



Plaz

[TrashyMG]

no.  they apparently changes stuff.. so not FULL AGA done exact!
done exact means ALL restrictions mustbe there, AND all bugs! as it might be used in.. well.  demos etc.

Gold 3  core is still in internal debugging likely release is 1Q 2018, IE it's still being worked on and getting tested thoroughly. It's not a one man operation, several people are helping develope it. Why do I get a feeling you still don't understand that an FPGA is programmable?

I got my Vampire as I guessed it sould be the killerthing..  and I got a nice offer so yeah I take it now.  I will get the fpu etc later..

this however seems not to fully happen.. I guessed I could make an A500 an awesome AGA demomachine later.. but. .no.
and it should be so compatible.. it wasn't. it ended in yes.. it runs sysinfo nicly.. but.. nah. this doesn't even feel amiga. (and this comes from me using WINUAE mostly when coding)

ugg not sure exactly where you are going with this, don't know which things didn't work. I haven't seen an OCS/ECS title that didn't run with WHDLoad, all my floppy games work as intended too. Most things that use RTG work fine too... It's likely just your setup.

well yes!  but they also call the AGA addons "SAGA" just to confuse even more.. and that will just introduce more issues.  

So programmer/engineers are bad at naming things, nothing new.

no it isn't as they apparently added stuff. and.  apparntly via chipset..  sigh!  WHYYYY!..

You can add things without breaking compatibility, also you can just use the real paula if you want to...

I own an V500 so I have tested it.  and.. it is not in my box of "well  crap pcbs" haven't even bothered to remove the CF adapter on it

I need one for my A2000 willing to sell it?

if this was in the beginning of 2000 it would be aswesome.. now it is too late for the new cpustuff etc.

Well myself and others are having fun with it, not too interested in Emulation or PPC offerings so it's right up my ally.

Would ANYONE accept that people did changes like this on the C64?  

sure why not, PIMP it out.

Anyway.  it is time to stop..   vampire fanatics will never understand my point, I understand theirs.. but their hope will fail as the team apparntlty does not want the programmers to use their platform not suppling the possability of using their debugtools.

Just need to get new debug tools, software just needs to catch up, which is why this offering is trying to bring in a bigger base of people.
.

so number of software supporing the 080 stuff I guess will be aprox the same as the PPC. (and that is very low.  damn I should sell my CSPPC and BPPC while consuming space making you need to softwareemulate other stuff you MIGHT use..

Well legacy software works, it works very well. the inherit nature of 68080 processor design being able to run more instructions in a clock cycle alone boosts current software even if clocked at legacy speeds. As for dedicated software. Optimized libraries could do wonders and it's not as if their team have people that can do that type of work, just they're off doing other aspects of the project. But then I suppose al this will induce another false "Incompatibilities" rant on your behalf.

his project. sure.. yes!  true.. it IS!  if he want to do bananas shooting out the screen every 10th minutes. he can do that.   but if someone thinks that is a bad idea maybe not be angry of it.. especially when asking for cooperation..

He is temperamental for sure at times, but he is faced by a wall of people making negative comments based on falsehoods spread by people being dismissive or purposely attacking the project. I can see how he may be upset from time to time or mistake a legitimate inquiry as another trolling attempt that happens often on IRC.

[TrashyMG]

LOL. Majsta wasnt at Amiga32.

@Chucky So yeah talking to Gunnar on IRC, it wasn't Majsta you where talking to. You where complaining about Gunnar directly to his own face...