Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...

[BigBenAussie]

I think the reason the AmigaOS and MorphOS groups cannot get along is because the AmigaOS4 supporters believe that the only way to raise the platform in the public eye, to its previous stature is by the name on the box. I agree.

Calling something a Pegasos doesn't cut it. Its not about Morphos, as such, being a bad OS. This also does not mean that Pegasos is a bad machine, it may even be superior to the Amiga One in some ways.

However, the Amiga One will eventually be released as THE AMIGA even though its done by Eyetech. The OS it will run will be released as AMIGA OS4 even though it was created by Hyperion and owned by KMOS. The companies that created it, are by necessity irrelevant, its the official AMIGA in the title that lends it legitimacy(along with arguably some sort of involvement with Amiga Inc).

Then for the first time since Commodore's demise the Amiga platform may have a chance at public legitimacy as an alternative platform, akin to a Mac.

The Pegasos, through no fault of its own, actually subverts this public legitimacy from happening, and I would imagine there are a lot of people out there that feel the same way. It subverts by drawing developer resources and early customers away from what will ultimately be the root system.

We are grateful for Genesi's interest in maintaining the platform, but its time in the spotlight will shortly be over. Sorry, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. Buck's desperate attempts to obtain the Amiga logo through litigation, to legitimise the platform in some way, will ultimately be to no avail regardless as to whether he is successful or not.

IMHO this whole discussion will 'one day'(wanted to say soon) be rendered irrelevant given what will ultimately be the huge demand that will be generated in the Amiga One. Amiga One units will outnumber the Pegasos so incredibly quickly once it is released that the market will determine the true Amiga successor.

Pegasos is out, and while it has engendered some passion it will never be able to engender the passion that is required to become a mainstream platform. And ultimately that is what we all want.

Pegasos will be relegated to the scrap heap of history like every other go faster board that ever graced a classic Amiga. Its sad for Genesi, having contributed so much.

[BigBenAussie]

@Targhan

I am sorry you feel that way over my statement of opinion. Unfortunately, at one point or another we have all been guilty of the elitism in owning an Amiga.

My opinion differs from yours. I don't blame you for your opinion, and I am sure you have some valid arguments, just as I feel I do. However, this whole issue is more emotion based than logical. It depends on your passion.

With attitudes of this nature, you succeed in doing nothing but ensuring that developers who may continue projects for both platforms decide not to.  I do not want to sound harsh, but every comment like that I hear (read) makes me want to request for all my contributions to the aminet be pulled.  They make me want to ask other developers to do the same.  They make me not want to pick up a copy of OS4 if given the chance.  

So, to summarise, you don't want to play any more and want to pack up your toys and go home.

I wonder why you feel that way, except sour grapes. You have made an investment in hardware that will most likely fail to gain the greatest mindshare. That is lamentable, but the way it is. I have not invested anything, so am neutral in that regard. I am coming in fresh and unfettered. You might argue that makes me ignorant, but if I KNOW that I will be a future Amiga One owner then I don't need to know anything else.

If you are a commercial developer for the Amiga system, YOU WILL HAVE TO make the software OS4 compatible because that will be the market. If you don't you will limit your exposure, and that is fine too. Its entirely your choice, but don't get all pissed off at the fact that most people  will choose differently. If I didn't feel that they would choose differently I would already be developing for Morphos, but I'm not am I? You would have every developer under the sun already jumping on Morphos but you don't.

Incidentally, as someone who intends to develop, I would be pleased to support both platforms but its always going to be a port FROM OS4 and it better be easy, because I'm not buying a Pegasos as well as an Amiga One.

Ironically, in this regard, AmigaOS has to survive for Morphos to survive and your investment to be justified because there will ultimately be more developers for that than for Morphos alone.

And you know, I think this is the crux of the entire argument at large. The Pegasos owners/developers want to justify their investment by continuing to develop for it. There is nothing wrong with that as far as they are concerned. They are actually more threatened by OS4 and the Amiga One than the OS4 and Amiga One supporters are concerned about Pegasos and Morphos. That is because they own one already.

The continuation of each of the different platforms will ultimately result in a dilution of their platform, and IMHO this is VERY bad. I think the whole point of the Amiga is that it is Amiga compatible and if Morphos does not maintain compatability with the official Amiga Operating System, then why would you stick with Morphos except if you already own one. In that case I guess future AmigaOS4 owners should not be concerned by what appears to be pot shots by the peg community.

I believe, and maybe its just my opinion, and it is a forum afterall where people are free to present their opinion, but
"There can only be One".

And we all know what that is going to be.
Developing for Morphos will one day be considered as laborious as maintaining legacy code.

I'm sorry if it makes you angry but don't shoot the messenger. The Amiga One is our only hope at becoming a mainstream platform again. If that fails, then Morphos keeps its mantle and you will then be happy at the failure of the Amiga One and the ressurection of the Amiga to the mainstream. Both will linger in no-mans land for good.

With my statements I would think I am actually compelling more developers to develop for AmigaOS than would be lost by Morphos developers refraining their support, but that was not the purpose of my post. I am just picking what seems to me to be the obvious winning platform as far as I am concerned.

Maybe the Pegasos will remain around forever, maybe not, but if you can't see that the greatest hope for the Amiga community at large is the Amiga One then I think you've got rocks in your head. As a Pegasos owner you need it to succeed as well as it will only boost the software that will be available on your system too.

[BigBenAussie]

@KennyR

Catching up with your response.
Editing this response.

Where exactly do you get this idea that OS4 will be an unstoppable market when it comes out?

Not unstoppable in the broad sense, I am not foolish enough to think it will take the world by storm, but the A1/OS4 solution is sure to reinvigorate the platform far more than the Pegasos could ever hope for.

There are currently only 1000 or so A1 users and this will be very lucky to get to 2000.

Where exactly do you get this idea that OS4 will NOT be an unstoppable market when it comes out?
I think 1000 A1 users without an OS specially built for the hardware speaks for itself. The wiff of OS4 had these people purchasing A1s. Imagine when it actually arrives.

Worldwide, Amiga name is either completely unknown or a laughing stock.

First we get the previous owners who left the system. THEN THE WORLD!!!! MAHAHAHA!!!!

People aren't interested in an OS where badly behaved software can bring down the system.

So you're a windows user. OK. XP is better. Why all this self flagulation? What is wrong with you? Is Morphos getting you down already?

People aren't interested in hardware that will cost them a bomb yet still be seriously underpowered by modern standards.

That's why people were still buying Amiga hardware all these years I guess. Sigh!!! Why are you on this forum then. And you say I'm not helping. Sheesh!!!
The hardware, is what it is, and it can only grow from where it gets. The nice thing about Amiga hardware was that upgrading wasn't madatory. I didn't need an A3000 my A500 was fine. Get it!!! But I could still go and get a go faster board or an A4000. The power users will always be playing catch up and that is fine. Just give me the equivalent of the A500 for now and I'll be fine. That's all I want to see right now.

>>I think the whole point of the Amiga is that it is Amiga
>> compatible and if Morphos does not maintain
>> compatability with the official Amiga Operating System,
>> then why would you stick with Morphos except if you
>> already own one.
>Because MorphOS is MORE compatible with the original >AmigaOS than OS4 is!

You're going to have to face facts that OS4 is the official AmigaOS. If its less compatable than Morphos than the original OS4 right now it most likely wont be for long. If its a problem then I am sure there are other alternatives to get the app running via OS4 just as there would be for MorphOS.

[BigBenAussie]

Oh, don't think for a second that I don't agree that all the companies involved have acted inappropriately in regards to the greater community.

However, as we stand now, and as far as they are willing to bend, I'll still have that A1 please. We are where we are and whatever the companies have done in the past, there is nowhere else to go. It could be worse.

I would like to remind you that Apple also was going to let people develop clones and stopped them. And whatever happened to IBM's powerPC initiative, its gone by the wayside. Did people actually make any? Where are they? IBM come out in support of Eyetech, like "Wow, somebody actually built one". I think its hard enough to get people to make the hardware as it is for an established platform let alone for an alternative platform like Amiga.

>> The Amiga One is our only hope at becoming a mainstream platform again.
> I nominate that for the "most bizarre statement of the year" category, even though it's only March.

GOOD!!! Go for it. Because I am totally behind that statement. You got a better hope??? Name it???

But none of this mainstream recognition is going to happen until the Amiga is released as a switch on and go box, rather than a motherboard that only the geeks know how to put together. Most people don't want to screw around with all that rubbish. I want a sleek standard ready built box with an A1 in it. And not PC tower either. How are we going to differentiate ourselves if it just looks like any other bit of hardware?

[BigBenAussie]

@-D-

I agree with most of what you said.

People don't even associate an OS with Amiga.
Absolutely friggin correct. The allure of the Amiga is something else entirely.

But these people have grown up now. They want to play games ofcourse and do other things too that require an OS. I never said that OS4 is a draw for newbies to an Amiga, in fact, it provides the barest minimum. But in terms of leisure computing that may well be enough.

I see the Amiga platform as being more of a grownups console. The kids are going to buy your X-Box2s and PS3s but the grownups are going to look at an alternative and they will have grown up with one. They will consider the Amiga as a hobby computer, as microcomputers were once considered. If we can get a decent browser going and a few decent games we'll have a start. Make it play and burn DVDs in a settop box and we'll have a tangible media center system. That's where its gotta go, multimedia is the revolution that it started.

But its gotta be slick damn it, even if it is underpowered. And if you care that much about playing your games faster, just pull out the 3d card and chuck another one in. People that care, spend more on them than entire consoles, and these are probably the people that will buy an Amiga despite the exorbitant cost.

You guys are in a different realm to where the Amiga needs to ultimately go. You're power users. The newbies wont care to be at least initially. They would be buying the system for the differentiation that it offers.

I know it seems like a weird thing to say but speed is becoming much less the defining issue in a computer. The slump in PC sales of late caused by lack in demand, is due to what I believe there being no tangible difference in perceived performance, is what I think caused it. A slower specced Amiga will feel choppier than a higher specced PC box right? So the OS has a natural advantage. But as I contended at the start of this post. The OS is not important. Its the platform and the name and if that is not the case with you, then go buy a peg. I'm not stopping you.

My vision for the Amiga is different. Sometimes I wonder if you're all too close to it to see it.

[BigBenAussie]

@ AmiDelf

Dude, If the OS to choose were based on the skin it used I might as well be using XP.

I just skinned the hell out of it. Man, I didn't know I could even do that until 15 mins ago and once I started it blew me away. Changed the boot screen, all the window graphics and icons and mousepointer. Holy crap.

Check out
http://www.stardock.com
http://www.wincustomize.com

I know its Xp still, but its vastly improved in terms of looks at least. It looks soooo slick. This is what the Amiga should be about slickness. I have to admit Morphos looks slick right now too.

We've got a lot of catching up to do. I always figured that the Amiga OS ought to function more like those old Amiga demos with all the glitz and animation. That's what I remembered the most about the Amiga, those excellent demos. And anyway we should be past making the desktop look so serious. No one else is taking it seriously, why should we.

People want something different. As Alan said, the Amiga should go towards the leisure market. The kind that will be running Amiga's on TVs from their couch. They might not even want to see the OS unless it looks fun and slick.

I'm intending to write my app for TV resolution, and will slick it up graphically and with animation. I suggest we all do the same.