Is Hyperion the new Amiga Inc.?

[Hattig]

I have been in contact with Evert after this about AROS. I can't provide details but I am not worried about legality of AROS.

The case is different as Amiga Inc. has agreed to not compete with AmigaOS 4 under the Amiga name and Hyperion considers the use of AROS together with a the Amiga name as competition.

/end thread, except for the stirrers.

[Hattig]

I wouldnt like to trash competing product but when I read TonyW's explanation of their release cycle I could only think they are screwed. With this kind of model they never get properly working release out.

Judging by Amigans.net comment it already seems their 4.1 for SAM460 is different patch level than 4.1 for SAM440. On coming 4.1 release for PowerUp appears to have different patch level than others. You can not work with a release model like that. It is not only laborous but bug reports are completely useless if every platform have different version of components.

Yeah, it sounds like they haven't heard of branching for release from that message. Although more likely the message is dumbed down.

But Apple release new computers with custom patched versions of the current OS on them. It's just that they provide smaller updates every few months, and at the next update it's all merged in. Drivers, mainly, are the difference I guess.

[Hattig]

Oh.

"OTOH, it should be clear that after working for over 15 months with a team of around 30 developers, we already have a nice wishlist for OS 4.1."

ANN comment in 2003.

I could not find reference for number of Amiga developers at Commodore but Workbench about window should be good source: http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31.html

I think there's a massive difference between full time directly employed developers, and how AmigaOS has been developed in the past ten years. 30 developers could mean 2 full time developers, a few people doing their own projects that happen to also be in the OS, some people doing a few weekends on small components, etc.

[Hattig]

I don't think they do, but they want to make it appear it is... But you're right anyway: nice way to gather some spirit stuff

No, I think it is some trolling stirrers that like to bring up things from 2005 and say that they're how Hyperion currently considers something.

The fact is that Aros is being sold on the iMica and the AresOne, and nothing has been said about the legality there. Then again, they're not called the "Commodore Amiga with Workbench 5.0" are they?

[Hattig]

This coming from someone who doesn't even have an avatar?

What does that have to do with anything? Stupid ad-hominen attack.

Mods, let's close this thread, it serves no purpose apart from some people dredging up vague things from history (and claiming them as absolute proof of whatever their viewpoint is) and effectively making stuff up.

[Hattig]

He is a beginner on A.org and calling established users on here as "know it alls" was rude and arrogant therefore deserved an insult in return.

"Stupid ad-hominen attack" - Huh?

Why close the thread? People are entitled to their opinion and none of it is hostile. Maybe we should close this thread because not everyone agrees with you?

You attacked the person (for not having an avatar), not the argument.

How long does someone have to be a member on this site before they can post their opinion then? Let's see - he joined ONE MONTH after you... seems quite a fine distinction to make - in my opinion.

I'm saying that some opinions in this thread are actually getting close to slander, and it is also an opportunity for the same old people to diss Hyperion. I don't need to name names.

[Hattig]

Your point is valid even if your initial post wasn't that hot. As for Hattig, well that figures. As for slanderous comments in this thread, don't think so. Hyperion has been a blight from the get go and deserve everything they get. .

"that figures"? Pray continue. Please. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

Hyperion have been a blight on those that want AmigaOS dead by keeping it alive. For many others they have managed to create and update a PowerPC version of the operating system for them to use. Some might claim it takes them a long time to do updates, and that the core OS is still steeped in 80's architectural fail, but at least they've done something.

[Hattig]

If you've got some facts about how Hyperion "currently considers something", spill it. Otherwise you're speculating just like anyone else. More so in fact.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29498

Oops! But that was said more than a year ago so according to you it's not how Hyperion "currently considers something".

2005.

And previously cleared up in this very thread. Hence my previous comment.

Sheesh.

Right, Hyperion - we know you read this site - what's your viewpoint on AROS today?

[Hattig]

...MorphOS...

Ah, here we come to the real reason some people are bitching about Hyperion.

Even though in my mind MorphOS did it right by shuffling off classic behaviour into a compatibility box so the architecture wasn't held back, and moved a lot quicker in many ways...

Personally I'd hate to be an Amiga developer - three platforms, a few users, and a lot of ungratefulness. And too much incompetency. Bill Buck  (despite his irascible personality) clearly had the right idea, and his companies are releasing hardware still - ARM now - at cheap prices.

AmigaOS should have been aiming for ARM for a few years now. Too late now.

[Hattig]

You keep telling yourself that sunbeam.

Whatever. So what are your points that you're alluding to? Or just winding people up for a laugh?

[Hattig]

In my case that's not true, I don't like or trust Hyperion for the simple fact that after buying OS4.0 they left OS4.0 users in the lurch after just one update and now they want folk like me to buy OS4.1 or OS4.2... fat chance...

At least there was one update I guess. It's taken so long I actually don't remember the timeframe for OS4 releases!

Um, After 30 months of development, April 2004 saw the OS4 developer release. 32 months later in December 2006, OS 4.0 final arrived (a ridiculous long time from when Hyperion started the port from the 3.1 sources - 5 years!), then September 2008 for 4.1. Nearly two years if you go from final version to final version - comparable to a Mac OS X release cycle - moreso if you count the 'developer edition' as being '4.0 final but we can't call it that because of legal wranglings'.

How I see it is that Hyperion took a very long time to get on track with OS4 development. Certainly it isn't a money spinner for them - how many people bought it in the end - a thousand? Maybe two thousand! Two releases in ten years can't have been bringing in the dough, and I remember that they said they had to take on other paying contracts when they could to make ends meet, delaying the OS development. I presume that 4.2 will be coming out later this year - three years after the previous version which is a perfectly adequate time frame for a paid OS update - so they might make another fifty grand or so from sales. Not a lot is it? Certainly not for the stress that it has brought into their lives.

[Hattig]

Threatening legal action against competitors on obviously groundless claims

Is this the Commodore USA thing? I think we already worked out that was because they were going to use the Amiga name with AROS, and Amiga Inc. couldn't license the Amiga name to Commodore USA for that particular use because of the terms of the license with Hyperion. Or the 2005 quote about Aros, which someone else in this thread earlier said wasn't something they were worrying about any longer, and as common sense dictates isn't an issue because they haven't been going after AROS itself, nor the iMica or Ares One - not that we know of anyway.

Did Hyperion ever state anywhere that they were going after Commodore USA? Or that they were just going to take some action about the situation?

The situation with some of the non-payment for licenses is a different thing altogether, that isn't good behaviour if it is true. Then again private business contracts often pan out this way - still not saying it's good please note - but the details stay private instead of getting aired in public.

[Hattig]

Actually there was a "july update" from 2007, which incorporated with the December 2006 release constituted the complete "final". (for 4.0)

source

#6

Cheers. I considered that, but it appeared the final final release was December - which makes it worse in two ways - even longer to develop it, and a shorter time to 4.1 which was also paid. I'm not being easy on Hyperion here! :-)

[Hattig]

I've already given you a few of them and even provided a specific example which Jorkany was kind enough to provide citation for.

Your response to that was to ignore everything said and turn to quote mining.

Like I said in regard to your response to Kesa: Typical.

I pointed out to Kesa that attacking the person - an ad hominen attack - is not a good way to win an argument. Attack the argument itself - that's the way to go.

Therefore I bow down to your extremely subtle referential sarcasm in writing "As for Hattig, well that figures." out of nowhere.