Amiga Auction List Posted

[System]

Is it legal for the auctioneer to imply that someone who does not own—or have in custody—the corporate entity of Amiga, Inc. is selling that corporate entity? How can we contact the auctioneer to urge them to change the wording to more accurately reflect reality?

@billsey

The auction company is required, by federal disclosure laws, to announce that they are selling the assets of Amiga Inc due to the foreclosure procedings by the landlord.

"Fleecy" and Ray's stories once again don't match reality, or indeed even each other.  Both seem desperate to minimize the fact that the auction is taking place and that their business assets are gone.  We call that "damage control".

I have no doubt that the auctioneer is bringing in additional items for that auction.  That is very common practice with auction houses, but the items shown on that auction page (all 50 computers, all monitors, drives, etcetera) were property of Amiga Inc at one point or another.  They were all seized by the landlord to cover what amounts to a great deal of debt.

Private bankruptcy is no different.  If you have a house and file bankruptcy, the auction company plasters huge "bankruptcy sale" signs all over the newspaper and neighborhood to make sure everyone knows that you are financially irresponsible and not trustworthy with money.  Bankruptcy is intentionally a very humiliating process.

That being said, I am not suggesting that AI has filed bankruptcy (before you willingly read that into my comments).   I am stating for a fact that their business property was foreclosed and, as it is written on the auction site now, this is black and white, and written in stone.

The fact that no one there (with the probable exception of Ray, "Fleecy" and Bill) has been paid in almost 6 months is a very convincing argument that Amiga Inc is "nearly dead", and I cannot feel in my heart that's a bad thing.

They have no offices
They have no trademarks
They have no honor (re: Bolton Peck/Insurance situation)
They have no employees (they have volunteers)
They have zero credit rating to attract investors or partners.

Furthermore,
DE?  Tao
OS4?  Hyperion
A1?  Eyetech

The "Bill and `Fleecy` travelling circus" showing OS4 on the classic Amiga is irrelevant.  While I applaud the valiant efforts of Hyperion and Eyetech to bring a marketable product to bear despite Amiga Inc's bungling, any company or individual stupid enough to give Amiga Inc money today has my sympathies.

I just wish I'd spent the $175 for the plane ticket two weeks ago so that I could go and roast marshmellows over the rotting corpse that is Amiga Inc at the auction.

Wayne

[System]

@z5

Sorry, that's not what I'm saying at all.  If you want to buy OS4, more power to you.  I just wish, like you that Amiga Inc would stay far, far away from OS4 to avoid the corruption.

Wayne

[System]

@Alkemyst

1) What the hell are you blathering about?  I didn't call Hyperion, nor Eyetech stupid to the best of my knowledge.

2) If you or anyone else misunderstood anything to the contrary, please accept my apologies because that was not my intention.

[System]

@Ian,

Whatever.  If you're going to decide your future presence on this web site based on what you think you read versus what's actually written there, then.....  Have a nice day.

(If you re-read it again, you will note that I said that I "applaud the valiant efforts of Hyperion and Eyetech".  In my mind, I have little problem with either company.  My issues are strictly with the "management" of Amiga Inc and their constant scams, lies, and bungling of anything they touch.)

If you're going to hate me for telling the truth about their situation AS ALMOST EVERYONE HERE CAN SEE IT, perhaps you're right about the need for your presence.  

If you're going to hate me for my avatar, it would seem that I am not the one who needs a life here.

Before the door hits you in the ass however, ask yourself this....  How many verifyable humiliating problems will Amiga Inc create for themselves before you stop the apparent hero worship long enough to admit that there are problems?  Remember, admitting there is a problem is the first step on the road to recovery...    :-P

[System]

Why is everyone who opposes you or think differently than you an Amiga-worshipper? Yet if someone calls you a Pegasos worshipper you get insulted?

Point taken.  See?  It's apparently very easy to get confused in either direction.

To set the record straight, I hope the Amiga platform succeeds.  I really do, but I honestly feel that if the Amiga succeeds, it will be because of companies such as Eyetech, Hyperion, and Genesi, as well as the Amiga community IN SPITE OF Amiga Inc.

Let's remember a fact here folks.  Bill McEwen stood at the podium three years ago and declared "AmigaOS is dead" and "The Amiga as a desktop platform is dead".  These might be words spoken to fit the times, but it's apparent to most people here that the business plan for DE is dead-ended.  

Amiga's plan with DE is to act as a middle man, taking a cut of the profits between developers and sales of DE games.  The problem is, the deal for example on the Microsoft game pack is between Microsoft and Amiga Inc (or possibly written between Microsoft and Bill McEwen), not Microsoft and the developers themselves.  

An interesting *rumor* I received from an AA developer yesterday has it that the author of the crossword puzzle (which is the only "Amiga" game on the Microsoft pack) won't get paid a dime because AI literally gave that game to Microsoft in exchange for the publishing of the actual Amiga branded game packs.  I just hope that if there's ANY truth to that rumor, the author of that game got SOMETHING for his efforts.  

Hopefully whomever that author is, is here and can set the record straight?  If I'm wrong, that's cool and I apologize, but as stated, this is just the rumor I was presented with.

LEGALLY before Bill McEwen can pay any developer a single dime, he MUST pay off debts such as Bolton Peck and the long list of pending court cases.  If any developer receives any sort of payment from Amiga Inc before said debts are settled, it is in violation of federal law.

[System]

This is their last chance to knock off Amiga and they know it

Zoltan,

Looks like you're the one whose fallen prey to conspiracy thought.  Amiga Inc is dying of self-inflicted wounds and most people here at least admit it.

[System]

Yes, but they are getting some 'help' as all people on the SDA-lists have already witnessed.

I'm sorry.  "You can't know the truth because you're not on some restricted list" is a bullshit excuse.  Having to create secretive restrictive lists just to promote your own propoganda and call it truth is bullshit.  

Speaking as a former Amiga Inc cheerleader and former member of the "Amiga Community Crisis Management (ACCM)" list -- why would they need a crisis management list if there weren't a problem with Amiga Inc and that was almost two years ago? -- I can tell you that there are an awful lot of things being said on those lists which are simply not true, and they don't even match the demonstratable facts....  At this point, believing anything they say is a matter of personal choice based on your preference to do so, not on any known or demonstratable facts.

Amiga Inc cannot say "The Amiga community is very important to us" then immediately turn and say "we will not tell you anything unless you're on our uber-secret list of cheerleader friends because it's none of your business".  It just doesn't work that way.

[System]

@Gnarly,

Debate is what keeps some of us interested.

[System]

It should be pointed out that while the auction company yielded to apparently "dozens" of complaints from the members of this web site by saying "Amiga Inc is not going out of business", a quick call to their offices further yielded that "we are only the auctioneer responsible for the auction of their foreclosed business assets, we have no real information as to their actual business status.".  

The person I spoke with also continued "Please ask that the members of your site refrain from calling us repeatedly every few minutes when we add something to the auction".

Quite clearly, they've had enough of dealing with the Amiga community whereas this eviction and property seizure is concerned.   I can't say I blame them as from what I gather, some of the calls were less than friendly.

I mention this specifically to request that site members (of any site reading this), please lay off of the auction company.  They are not responsible for the current condition of Amiga Inc and they're only doing their jobs as auctioneers.  They have no agenda, and this is not their fault.

[System]

As for the update that I just submitted as a new news item (that somehow got turned into a little note tacked onto the head post of this topic - funny and sad how that happens)

Why is it funny or sad?  What benefit would having a SECOND STORY linking to the SAME SITE for your humilating auction be?  I've posted your text, I've also spoken to them personally and gotten a very interesting response....

It was NOT you (as you are prone to take credit for things which do not pertain to you) who got them to clarify things....  At least not according to them, and as I said, unlike you, they have no reason to lie.

[System]

@Waccoon,

For the record, to date, I have signed no less than 8 (*YES, EIGHT*) NDA's and SDA's with Amiga Inc, none of which are actually legally binding.  None were signed by Bill McEwen in my presence, and none of them were ever notorized in my presence.  No validated copies were ever returned to me.

Hell, Anyone in attendance can verify that Bill McEwen was handing them out to everyone at the one of the last Saint Louis shows for God's sake to anyone and everyone who walked by in the hall.

Furthermore, if I can find the box, I've probably got a whole pile of blank ones that were left on the table in the hall after "Fleecy's" 2.5 hour techno-babble-fest about the "conceptual freedom behind DE".  If I can find my big folder of these oh-so-important and valuable NDA's, who wants one?  Maybe then, when the whole community has signed multiple NDA's and SDA's, Amiga will be honest.  I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

Then there were several other times I had made proposals to Amiga Inc for community projects, all of which were torpedoed. There were at least two occassions that I contacted them for developer information and once when I received my SDK.

So....  Tell me all these deep and dark secrets about how Amiga Inc is going to save the universe and how anyone who doesn't agree with them are "immature teenagers" (Paraphrase "Fleecy")....

This conversation gets more and more rediculous by the minute.  Those who BELIEVE that they have something to gain by following Amiga Inc are simply  not willing at all to listen to even DOCUMENTED and or DEMONSTRATABLE FACTS.

I'd just love to hear what Bill and "Fleecy" are saying about me behind these closed doors....  God only knows what bullshit, or I should say "BillShit" they've concocted since I abandoned the role of head cheerleader to Luca and Mike.

At least when I express my opinion of "Fleecy" and company, I do it in plain daylight.  They don't even have the honor to do things face-to-face.  Oh, yeah, that's right, they lost any portion of honor when they stopped paying employees and cancelled their health insurance without even bothering to tell them.

All I can say is "Good luck" to the bidders at tomorrow's auction.  Enjoy the day at the circus which is what became of Amiga Inc.  Bring cash, take home your very own special bit of the dotcom bust.

[System]

I don't know where you get your assumptions, but in this case, I have proof that you are wrong.

You have proof of nothing except that they apologized to Amiga Inc for the screw up.  According to them on the telephone, you were by far the least of their issues.

You made one of several dozen requests.  They simply responded to yours (I never sent them an e-mail request, so I don't know if they would have similarly responded to me or others.  I did call the auction house when you made the claim however)...

You really, really need to learn when to shut up and pick your battles.  You are doing a great disservice to your "employer" every time you open your mouth to defend them.  As a tenuous friend, I hope that doesn't come back and bite you in the ass personally.

[System]

@Hmetal

I'm wrong about what Ray?  

--  Amiga Inc hasn't lied to and abused the community for years?
--  Amiga isn't being evicted and foreclosed?
--  Amiga actually paid their employees and didn't terminate their insurance without notice?
--  Amiga Inc DIDN'T formally file the paperwork through their lawyer to ABANDON the Amiga trademark presumably so that it couldn't be seized by the court as an asset to sell and pay Bolton and others?  
--  Amiga DE is actually related to the Amiga?
-- Amiga isn't going to make more meaningless partnership announcements?

Please Ray, feel free to let me know exactly what it is that you think that WE are so wrong about and that you know everything about....  All I ask is that you let us know without all the marketspeak and "Fleecyisms".

[System]

Why on earth would you want to sign 8 NDAs and SDAs with Amiga?

Because every single time I attended a show, or contacted them about something, they had me sign yet another one, claiming that I had not yet signed one.

Don't need to sign anything else, as I trust that Amiga will keep their side of the deal

Therein lies the basic difference.  You "trust" them as you personally have no reason to think otherwise (yet).  Those of us who do not "trust" him or "Fleecy", have in most cases very much earned our position of now-complete distrust.

-- They aren't paying their employees, Ray and "Fleecy" have constantly twisted that fact.
-- They terminated the medical insurance of employees without even telling them about it.
--  They intentionally petitioned to abandon the trademark (the abandonment paperwork was physically filed by their lawyer).  Presumably, they did this to keep it from being seized by the courts as an asset.
--  They were evicted almost A YEAR AGO and continually lied about it.  They continue to twist the undeniable facts even today.
-- Their credit rating is far less than even my personal limit, and my personal limit isn't perfect.  This means that no real company would invest money in Amiga Inc unless they buy something (not license it).
--  All of their hardware assets have been seized by the landlord for over a year aside from the "laptops" they apparently took home with them.  No real work has been done (at least demonstrably) on anything.
-- Their "CTO" doesn't even know enough to answer simple, straight-forward answers regarding their license of the trademarks and patents.
--  Amiga Inc has completely changed directions at least three times in three years.
--  Almost every single partner they've announced has either denounced Amiga Inc later, or abandoned their efforts in AI's direction.  This says something major.
--  They based their entire business plan on USING the then-existing base of Amiga developers to develop software for TAO's Intent.  Their entire existence before the most recent complete direction change was to be a middle man shareware distributor.
--  Bill McEwen stood on the Podium at Saint Louis in 2000 and declared both the "Amiga as a desktop platform and as an OS is dead".  It is only the fact that they are broke now that they have reversed that decision.  Luckily Amiga Inc has nothing to do with either OS4 or the AmigaOne outside of "the name".
--  Absolutely nothing has been officially heard from Amiga Inc (Bill "benevolent dictator" McEwen) in almost a whole year.

Should I go on?  How much more will it take to convince some of you that Amiga Inc *IS* the problem.  I am convinced that the only way the official Amiga platform will survive is to stay as far away as possible from the likes of McEwen and "Fleecy".