I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......

[IonDeluxe]

LOL
Hyperion OWN OS4
there is simply no possible way a contract, not matter how badly mangled, with Amiga Inc can possibly give Genesi OS4.
At best all it means is the DE player they have licensed must be upgraded to the same level as that in OS4.2.
Just because it is integrated does not in any way mean that the two products are the same, in fact in the same page it is clearly stated OS4 and Amiga DE are two seperate products!

Which is all besides the point.

What is written on that page is not a contract, at best it is a guidline of the plan Amiga Inc had for the future at that time, and it is certainly NOT in any contract Amiga Inc has with Genesi.

Which is all premature. As yet I have seen or heard of absolutely no ruling in the initial case.Just because the deadline has passed means nothing, the judge still has to make and apply its final ruling into exactly how anything gained is to be awarded, and to who.Just because Genesi is listed on the deposition as a plaintiff does not garuntee that that particular company will gain anything of value, the contract in question was not with them it was with Thedic-germany, a completely different business entity.

Finally, even if Genesi do manage to void the contract in question, no longer will either eyetech or Hyperion be required to pay any license fee at all, so why the hell would they pay Genesi?They would also be under no obligation to include Amiga DE in the upgrade path of OS4....the contract is voided remember.

Once again this is nothing but FUD. Unless of course Gary Hary did some fast dealing during his stint as CEO of AMiga Inc. ROFL.

It is plainly obvious to me that Bill Buck has a personal vendetta against Bill McEwen, and possibley Ben Hermans, and is using his position to achieve completion of this vendetta. A gross misuse of power and the responsibility that has been provided to him in my opinion.

[IonDeluxe]

If this comes through the way it should, it will be the most positive thing that happened to the Amiga community for many years. It looks like Hyperion might find themselves to be standing in front of a serious decision soon. Provided that Hyperion plays ball in a sensible way, everyone will win (Hyperion, Genesi, the customers, the resellers, the developers -- everyone in the community), and we will have unity again!

Unity? you are joking right?
BBRV is not interested in unity, never has been and never will be.
The only "unity" he has ever been interested in as far as the Amiga is concered is simply controlling the whole shebang, plain and simple.

I am only speculating of course, but the way I see things, it might very well come to that - Hyperion might have to make a choice. No-one has to love each other to be able to do business you know, but it would help if *some* efforts were put into *building* bridges instead of burning them down as soon as there is a chance ...

And now you talk about burning bridges, yet here is Genesi sueing Amiga Inc. Here is Genesi making claims of forcing Hyperion to tow the line about OS4 not to mention eyetech, all the while they could very simply have license the pegasos and had OS4 the easy way.
Dont bullshit me about the cost, I know what the cost was, and in comparison to what has happened, to the cost the community has paid, it is negligable.

The reason all of this has come to pass in my opinion is simple.
Gateway were going to do nothing, everyone knew it, and BBRV took advantage of the situation and bought the QNX base planned a new system that would run alod AMiga software whilst also upgrading current users to a new technology level.He HAD the entire community to himself.
This in and of itself was fine and dandy, the only problem was that although the roots of this was based surely on an Amiga foundation it was not Amiga.

The along come Amino buys the patents rights licenses the rest makes a plan for the comeback of the Amiga.
The problem boiled down to simply Amiga Inc as unwilling to place its future into the hands of what is now Genesi, allowing them to dictate hardware and OS and the direction it goes whilst bearing the Amiga name, and BBRV unwilling to give up/share the Amiga Community, which he requires to make his plans a success.

As there can only be one kingpin in this little community BBRV has simply decided he is going to be it, he was before, why should he allow Amiga Inc. to take over. So instead of working WITH the Amiga community he has strived ever since to tear it apart until there is no one that can oppose him as BEING the king pin, and thats all there is to it.

BBRV wants to be boss of the whole shebang, and his pride simply cant stand that Bill McEwen has come in and messed up his plans.

[IonDeluxe]

Well yes BBRV is actually two people, yet Bill Buck seems to talk for both of them so often that it is pretty much synonomous with just Bill Buck.
Personally, it seems like Bill Buck has not the courage to stand on his own two feet but needs the crutch of RV.

[IonDeluxe]

@takemehomegrandma

Your recitation of events is anything but accurate.

What will happen next?

1. Genesi will enforce the "upgrade" clauses to AmigaOS 4.2 and beyond.
2. The Hyperion/Eyetech OS 4.0 Agreement will be declared "null and void and of no force or effect."
3. We will sublicense under the Agreement and the ruling.

We are so tired of some of the "idiots" in this community.

It is time to end all this.

R&B

BBRV wishes to void the contracts between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion/eyetech.

Once that it done he want s to force both of them to use his hardware, and if they dont then hyperion gets no lisence and niether does Eyetech get OS4.
"Uniting" is done through convincing people to choose to work together from a number of options. What Bill Buck desires to do is force these companies into doing things his way or not at all. This is called Tyranny.Nor is this "co-operating" with the community as he has said he wants to do many many m,any times over.

If Amiga Inc couldn't have it all, they would have to divide it to save and protect what could be saved for themselves

Hmm the contract with Hyperion and Eyetech. Eyetech gets the hardware, Hyperion gets the OS and Amiga Inc gets thier AA player.Everyone gets a piece of the pie.
This is called sharing.

"It's not Amiga" and other mantra's

here is another : "fast Amigalike experience"
and another : "functional amigalike operating system"

When they were loosing grounds in the traditional Amiga community forums, the same people ran off to create amigaworld.net, this virtual Berlin wall, to even further separate "the pure part" of the community from the rest. This is not working for unity IMHO, this is working for the benefits of Amiga Inc.

Hmm so people leaving a place(be it in cyberspace or real life) to avoid persecution, harassment, constant attacks upon thier beliefs and choices are likened to racists.I wonder what the Jews would say about that.
I find that the people who sream loudest about descrimination of any form are most often those perpetrating descrimination.

This is not working for unity IMHO, this is working for the benefits of Genesi.

Bill Buck's own words just reinforce and support what I have been saying all along, he does not desire unity, he does not want cooperation he wants the entire community, and he will attempt to crush, or drive off anyone that stands in his way.

[IonDeluxe]

ALot of you people have missed the point when I mentioned the word "tyranny"

Right now we have the choiceof an Aone or pegaosos, we have the choiceof Pegasos or Aos. Both hyperion and eyetech have the choiceof the harware these will support.

Bill Buck intends to remove that choice from both the companies AND the consumer and call it "uniting" when in actual fact it is FORCING, and that is the "Tyranny" I was referring to.

Bill Buck has REFUSED point blank in personal email correspondence with me(which I made public with his full knowledge) to ever lisence OS4 and/or get Amiga certification. He quoted the price to me which was far less than he has spent on lawyers. The only part he mentioned that did not have a price tag was the development of a new board(as the pegasos does not have a dongle) whis is mostly irrevelantdue to the fact he had to redevelop his boards anyway.

No, he wants the only choice to be his boards his way and to call his machines Amiga's for free.
Thats what this entire court case has been about from day one, depite the fact he wants to work "with" the community.
/sarcasm on
yeah sure
/sarcasm off

[IonDeluxe]

There is nothing to dicuss with you. You made me aware of your "requirements" to enter any discussion and they are quite simply exhorbidant.As such they will never be met and hence there is nothing to discuss.

Of course if you decided to reverse your current course of action then there might be, but we all know there are only 3 chances of that happening.

[IonDeluxe]

@-D-
get with the program bud.
Nothing I have said ishypothisisit is what Bill Buck himself has said.
Furthermore, the contract cannot be "voided" by a judge until another party (read: Bill Buck) brings it to the court.Nevertheless it is what he himself said he would do.
As for the rest, you are simply not up to date. Also note that Mr B.Buck has had opportunity to refute anything I have said as he replied directly to me after I said those thing yet he did not.

Why does it matter?
As I have said several times, at the moment both the companies and the consumers have a choice of hardware and of operating system.Bill Buck proposes to deny all of us, the consumers the businesses the developers of that choice.

I find his reasons dubious at best and hid methods even less reputeable, and this is the person you want as dictator of the future of the Amiga platform?

No, it's called "business". Ultimately the entire point
is that customers have products, and someone makes money.
Everything else is simply a means to an end. That's how things
operate in this world.

Maybe the world does work this way, that does not mean that it should work this way.I find that the practises of business leave a huge amout to be desired from a moral standpoint.Not long ago it was standard practise to dump toxic wastes into the water catchment areas worldwide, that does not make it right.

You are obviously not up to date with this discussion.

[IonDeluxe]

1. Who cares.That has absolutely nothing to do with what I am saying.He is attempting to monopolize the Amiga market. Thats one of the reasons I want amiga to succeed, because there is no monopoly unlike the x86 world.

2.Who is trying to strike a deal?
I have already stated such a thing is impossible due to exhorbidant requirements that cannot be met.Why is calling out the "head of a company" any different than calling out anyone else.Does being the head of a company give him extra rights and privledges?
3. Nothing you have said is relevant to the discussion

[IonDeluxe]

IF Genesi somehow came into possession of AmigaOS (but they seem to hope for a position to sublicense it), then you call their hypothetical sales restriction of AmigaOS to only Pegasoses "tyranny"?

No, I call forcing Hyperion and eyetech to use pegasos tyranny when they have other hardware available.Especially when Hyperion owns AOS4.

The rest of what you have said is opinion so I will agree to disagree.

[IonDeluxe]

@plaz
I agree with much of what you have said there, a couple things to note are:
AOS is supposed to be hardware agnostic once they reach AOS5.0 which means it will run on the pegasos and x86 alike, however it will be native to the AmigaOne(or whatever its called if we get that far) and as such will have a performance advantage on it.
The current hardware, bot A1 and pegasos is nothing special in my view, never has been, but it IS new harware for the Amiga community, it IS a huge step forward from what we had in many respects, and I am sure it will move forward quickly if things go well to be competative with current technologies.
I have no problems with Genesi, the product they produce is quite good, and they have many talented and honourable people employed/developing for them. My problem is only with the CEO.

[IonDeluxe]

@-D-
your ability to twist words is remarkable, yet it still does not change the facts.

The Court will now add the "upgrade" amendment to the current ruling and in so doing render subsequent agreements to our November 2000 agreement void. This is not something we are doing against OS4.0, it is an action we will take against Amiga Inc. We can then license Hyperion for OS4.2 (and beyond) and thus 4.0 can be then released. Hyperion will have less to pay to us than they would have had to pay to Amiga Inc. We can even sell to Eyetech a non-Articia Pegasos board at a much lower price (and they will not have to pay Amiga Inc. anything). Perhaps, everyone will get along better. Frankly, they will have little choice, but we do not intend to handle them badly, but fairly and in the best interest of our potential customers. Amiga Inc. cannot stop us because of the ruling. It will all be pretty one-sided from this point on.

My emphasis.

As the license is validated under US law Hyperion will not have any recourse unless Amiga Inc. gets our written consent, which will not happen. However, we will sublicense (as we can under the Agreement) Hyperion for less than they would have paid Amiga and the customer/community will benefit from lower prices. Of course, Amiga Inc. could appeal but it is not likely given their general disregard for the Court.

my emphasis

As i said, force.

[IonDeluxe]

Hmm. "Force" Hyperion to sign a license with Genesi rather than Amiga, Inc. but under better terms. "Force" Eyetech to consider a much better board deal than they have now. "Force" AmigaOS customers to pay less for functionally the same thing than they have available with the AI arrangement. Doesn't really sound all that bad to me.

Better terms? thats purely speculative.
Better board deal...the same
Pay less fo the same funtionality still pure speculation.

That Bill Buck intends to thereby remove choice and competition from the market for both consumers and the companies involved is fact.
That does not sound good to me.Nor is he "working with the community" as he so often likes to tout.From the word go he could have lisenced OS4 for the pegasos gotten it certified and given the community a real choice AND the ability to name the pegasos an "amiga" but he cried poor.
Maybe this is true for a company that also can't pay it's employees, but would have been cheaper than lawyers.

The bitter taste for some, of course, is that it's Bill Buck at the controls, but are we discussing personalities, or technology and business?

The two are not seperable, it is the personality that controls the business, and hence the business is no more reliable than the person running it, hence I will never do business with Genesi until BBRV no longer has any stake in it.The same holds true for a significant portion of the community, and if Bill Buck's stated plan comes to fruition, this is just another way the community will be hurt.
I heard a rumour that Gary Hare was taking over as CEO of Genesi, so perhaps there is hope.

[IonDeluxe]

Continuing to twist my words into something I have not said will not further this discussion at all.
You have decided to trust Bill Buck at his word, fine thats your choice.
I don't nor will I ever trust his word as he has proven himself to be vindictive, concerned only with his own personal vendetta and personal agenda that has nothing to do with the well being of the community, despite how he tries to cover it up.
You cannot go past the fact that if he wanted to have a united community he could have had his machine amiga certified and had OS4 on it the same as eyetech has done.

There would then have been no split.
there would have been true choice instead of two diametricly opposed competitors that both happen to run some old Amiga software
The developers of both sides could have developed for both machines instead of splitting thier resources between the two.
He could have increase his own marketbase as well as that of Hyperion.
This frivolous and costly court case could have been completely avoided.
And we would probably be talking about a promising future and been writing about something constructive for a change.

As it stands I will do everything in my power to make sure people can consider both sides and make up thier own mind. I wont allow him to further poison this community without making an effort to stop it, or at least limit the damage.

[IonDeluxe]

Well I wrote A nice long post adressing everything mentioned, but as fate would have it, my account got timed out.I can't be bothered to type it all out again so I will be brief.
Mr Buck has set a very poor standard of behavior, and I don't care that this is "only business" it affects real people in a very real way, and as such I will hold them, and thier CEO's just as accountable for thier behaviour as any individual, maybe even moreso.
My point of view is not based on speculation as you may like to believe, it is based on the fact of what Mr Buck has said publicly on various forums, message boards, community portals and perasonal correspondance.

This proposed action directly affects the 1000+ people that have already purchased an AmigaOne, they will be denied AOS4 if Bill Bucks plan comes to pass.
Will he offer them a replacement system that does run OS4? I severely doubt it, nor could he supply them with those machines in the current situation I believe.

Yeah, this is a business decision, just goes to show he does not care a whit about what we want, what the companies involved want, he is interested only in what appears to be a personal vendetta and lining his own pockets.