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AuthorTopic: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"  (Read 22969 times)

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Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #180 on: February 22, 2020, 11:23:31 AM »
@OlafS3:

I don't get this fixation on ancient OS3.1...You want to replace AROS code with OS3.1 code to get an improvement in terms of speed and compatibility but the result would still only be OS3.1 which is 25 years behind. You would need to then fix all the OS3.1 bugs yet again. At least you should want to base AROS on a more recent and better version...!?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:36:12 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #181 on: February 22, 2020, 11:34:48 AM »
Why are cou contributing to 3.1 then?

The discussion was done lots of times already. We are here because we like amiga how it was and could have been. A new modernized OS has not the same attraction to the amiga community than a modernized but still compatible OS. That is where Aros f.e. fits in.

Breaking everything to modernize it would be possible but I doubt that it would have the same attraction and I doubt that it will attract many new users from outside. Perhaps you can integrate layers like Microsoft did in Windows to stay compatible when migrating to 64bit but that makes a lot of work certainly. I like Aros because it offers compatibility and adds features like RTG, network and USB not existing on 3.1. The big versions of Aros running on AMD64 including 64bit and SMP never interested me. For "modern stuff" I have Windows and Linux.  And expecially Aros 68k offers the "real amiga feeling" because you can mix amiga and aros components in it. For me (as someone interested in amiga stuff) the perfect solution.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:36:35 AM by OlafS3 »
 

Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #182 on: February 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM »
I'm not contributing to 3.1, I'm contributing to 3.2.

It's not about breaking anything but rather the opposite; it's about fixing longstanding bugs and making the system more stable.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:42:35 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #183 on: February 22, 2020, 11:40:37 AM »
I understand that Thomas and you want to safe the existing old 3.1 platform

For me the attraction is to have something more modern and complete but still compatible

And for compatibility (and sometimes speed on 68k hardware) looking in the old sources would help
 

Offline Minuous

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #184 on: February 22, 2020, 11:45:22 AM »
I don't care about 3.1, you are the one saying "3.1 this, 3.1 that". I skipped 3.1 altogether, and moved on from 3.0 to 3.5 in 1999 once I got my prerelease of 3.5, and would probably have left the platform at that time (as far as writing new software for it) otherwise. 3.1 is just too lacking.

If you want something "modern and complete but still compatible" you will be pleased with 3.2. Unfortunately AROS is neither modern nor complete nor compatible, and would not be even with open access to 3.1 sources (since 3.1 itself is none of those things).
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 12:13:00 PM by Minuous »
 

Offline Rob

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #185 on: February 22, 2020, 11:58:00 AM »
I must say that I've lost count of the number of times that a current or former Amiga OS delevoper has bemoaned the fact that they cannot contribute to AROS because of the NDA they signed with Hyperion.  Let's also not forget the huge number of developers who opened up to the public that they wanted to work on Amiga OS but had to make the hard choice not to because the NDA presented to them was just too restrictive for their liking.

Please let us know the "huge number" of developers wishing to contribute to AROS that made the hard choice.

This wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #186 on: February 22, 2020, 12:37:28 PM »
you seem to be a specialist for Aros...
 

Offline DrProcton

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #187 on: February 22, 2020, 01:26:23 PM »
I think both projects are awesome and should be supported and loved by the community.
Aros is taking huge steps now thanks to Vampire guys commitment. It needs more resources but vampire cards seems a perfect fit.
3.2 is awesome too because it's aimed to legacy hardware and is a coherent way to update any classic Amiga (and vampires too)
I think it could become a new and better 3.9. It's already better than 3.9 from many aspects.
Thomas ability is out of question here.
I don't know if today an open sourced 3.x could be beneficial to Aros, maybe not, but I believe that if an open source model was adopted in years 95-99 some of the nasty legal things would never happen.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 01:35:59 PM by DrProcton »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #188 on: February 22, 2020, 02:08:03 PM »
I understand that Thomas and you want to safe the existing old 3.1 platform.
Actually, I want to preserve the 68K platform as retro platform.

For me the attraction is to have something more modern and complete but still compatible
And for compatibility (and sometimes speed on 68k hardware) looking in the old sources would help
[/QUOTE]
Look, I cannot tell you want you have to want, surely, but you probably have to find out yourself that this goal is "contradiction in terms". First, if you want to create something modern, please do and avoid the idiocracies of AmigaOs. You cannot stay compatible and avoid nonsense such as BPTRs at the same time. You cannot become modern without a decent model for multiprocessing, yet at the same time keep constructions such as "Forbid()" working. Any decent operation system should have a model for security, but AmigaOs lacks even essentials for process and data isolation that make its simple inter-process communication possible. The whole graphics system is upside down, and in desolate state. The dos library and its BPTRs are alien to the system. The lack of memory and resource protection is at the very core of the system.

If you want to create something modern, the Os sources are of little help. Actually, the whole construction is of little help. Ditch it, and create something real.
The AmigaOs sources are a quite bad example how to design and implement an Os and its probably simpler not to look to avoid the errors that have been made.
 

Offline number6

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #189 on: February 22, 2020, 02:28:13 PM »
@cgutjahr

Quote
It's almost as if something regarding open source came up in the recent settlement discussions

Since open source has been talked to death on various websites, it certainly seems like more than a coincidence that it begins again in great fervor here...right after the most recent "round" of settlement talks resulted in no resolution whatsoever.

It would also make sense given classic (all variations) has long been acknowledged as Hyperion's best seller. Let's be honest...currently it is their -only- product that can raise (in Amiga terms) reasonable revenue. Given the extremely forthright statements from Thomas, it is apparent that this product would be in jeopardy without the backing of Thomas and the team.

Agree/disagree?

#6
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #190 on: February 22, 2020, 02:48:53 PM »
@OlafS3:

I don't get this fixation on ancient OS3.1...You want to replace AROS code with OS3.1 code to get an improvement in terms of speed and compatibility but the result would still only be OS3.1 which is 25 years behind. You would need to then fix all the OS3.1 bugs yet again. At least you should want to base AROS on a more recent and better version...!?

and i dont get your fixation in implying aros is just an incomplete 3.1 wannabe. it is widely known that aros is on pair on os4 and morphos in many areas, and probably better in some (latest gallium/mesa as example) even though this might not affect m68k that much. it is known that aros code has been used in morphos, as morphos team properly shared back their changes. it may be that aros code is used in os4, but it was never admitted (x-kernel - multicore experiment? ;))

now, that aros is a reimplementation, and not just of 3.1 (as you wrongly insist, just to make it look bad), but compatible to the whole range of 1.x-3.x, it might be obvious to an intelligent person, that it doesnt necessarily introduces 3.1 bugs in the first place.

edit: as its pretty sure now you will start a rant about your pet reaction not being implemented in aros, ill just remind, that stone age old class act was happily running on aros last i have checked and enough for any reaction app i was motivated to try.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 02:52:23 PM by wawrzon »
 

Offline kolla

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #191 on: February 22, 2020, 04:58:49 PM »
Actually, I want to preserve the 68K platform as retro platform.

You mean you want to preserve Amiga 68k as a retro platform, 68k as architecture manages perfectly fine without Amiga.

Isn't it ironic that you rely on open source software to accomplish your goal.
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Offline arnljot

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #192 on: February 22, 2020, 08:14:25 PM »
So, back on topic...

First there was a rumour that a settlement was a possibility. Does anyone know what concrete positions that were discussed, or if it was proforma discussions mandated by the court? Secondly, it's rumoured that these talks failed, if they were not proforma, but concrete talks, does anyone have an idea where it stranded?

Lastly, some here has taken it as a foregone conclusion that Cloanto will come out on top in this, why is this?

On the offspring topic here on a proprietary license vs OS license, I agree it gives the most freedom to the user as defined by the Free Software Foundation. This simply cannot be denied, if it'll give us the best official Amiga OS, I don't know. Atm we have 3.x, 3.1.4, 4.x, MorphOS and Aros to name a few... What would happen if who ever controlled the classic Amiga OS open sourced it, no one can really tell. But that steering would be more challenging is certain, also with a model of a closed source base and a committee. But both are functions of letting more people in.

If I had a say, I'd found a Amiga Foundation, have all Amiga player buy in at a low price, and then select officials to it. Amigakit, Idcomp, Cloanto, Hyperion and Aeon. Have a nonprofit own Amiga OS. That would at least reduce the risk that the OS stands and fall with one entity. If a non profit owned the Amiga OS, maybe it would remove some of the tension in the Amiga market.
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...
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Offline number6

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #193 on: February 22, 2020, 09:05:07 PM »
arnljot

the current court orders regarding the two lawsuits

Basically this entire thread took off right after this was made evident on page #1 of this thread.

#6
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: "Hyperion and Cloanto allegedly close to finalizing settlement"
« Reply #194 on: February 22, 2020, 11:14:57 PM »
I request to initiate detonation of a timebomb causing appearance of this thread to happen in another timeline we are not aware of.

(if this is improper English, then, well, swallow Richard)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:18:33 PM by TribbleSmasher »