newbee lacking knoledge

[Hyperspeed]

Back you UAE dogs!

*whip* *crack*

BACK I SAY!

*whelp*

;-)

[Ilwrath]

Back you UAE dogs!

Heh... Actually, I hardly even use UAE.  I have more real Amiga hardware than most Amiga vendors left.

Let's see... Off the top of my head
(2) New refirb A500's from Redrum's selloff.  (I'm keeping one for myself, and one is in my for-trade list)
(1) A500 games machine (rev 5 motherboard + 8372 Agnus mod)
(1) A500 with Bodega Bay expansion (huge!)
(1) A1200 with DKB RAM expansion
(2) A2000s
(2) A3000s (with various video processing cards in them)
(2) A4000s (including my prize A4000D with Cyberstorm 060 and CV64/3d)
(1) A1000 complete
(1) A1000 NOS motherboard
And there's more machines in the back of my closet... Plus, all sorts of original C= Amiga hardware, including mice, keyboards, modems, external floppy drives, etc.  Oh yeah... And thousands of disks that are deteriorating, as well...

But emulators don't hurt the market for any of my stuff.  If anything, they get more people interested in the platform, thus helping the market.

[blobrana]

 :-)

Hum,
as an amiganaut i confidently say that UAE has only become `usable` recently...
Even two years ago it was too primitive to compare with a real amiga...

And even today certain aspects of the emulated amiga are too slow or non-functional to fully replace the (my) classic computer...

And since it can't emulate an A1 it cant really be stealing software revenues, in fact, i suspect that many ppl may only become aware of the PPC amiga platform through the experimentation/investigations   of UAE...

[As Ripley once said "we can't afford to let one of those anti-uae creatures in here"]



why are  we not arguing about piracy on this thread, anyway?

[Hyperspeed]

I like the Alien quote blobrana but as I see it the Aliens are the
emulator-boys who just download ADFs willy-nilly and dismiss them as
old rubbish when they won't work properly.

Think of the Amiga as Newt, and me as Ripley in the powerloader:

"Get away from her... you {bleep}!"

:-D

[Ilwrath]

I like the Alien quote blobrana but as I see it the Aliens are the emulator-boys who just download ADFs willy-nilly and dismiss them as old rubbish when they won't work properly.

So, you're basically saying you want the Amiga to be a rare cult status symbol.  Only to be touched and enjoyed by the people who have enough space and money for purchasing rare, obscure, fragile, and underpowered hardware?

[Hyperspeed]

Hmmm, I'm not sure...

On one hand it's only natural to want to preserve the value of your
collection and future investments.

On the other you don't want to be selfish and stop people appreciating
Amiga.

I do think though that no matter what - file swapping damages
industries. Look at the music indutry and the way record sales have
slumped since MP3. So too would sales of Amiga software.

Companies still sell old Amiga software, a lot of it still
shrinkwrapped. After all, Quake, WipEout 2097, Napalm aren't as old as
say Dune 2.

I'm sure if you asked Fore-Matt Home Computing what they thought of
ADF downloads they'd give you a mouthful, not to mention Software Hut!

I remember at WOA '97 Guildhall were re-publishing Amiga games like
Skidmarks and Roadkill and selling them legit for £2. You get a nice
box and of course the manual that the game would need if it had a code
system.

I would rather the classic Amiga retired gracefully rather than become
some dirty tart that every emulator-boy has finished with. Better if
we keep our classic software for the AmigaOne and keep a tight control
on the copyrights so one day an Amiga company can start re-publishing
legit to AmigaOne users.

DOWN WITH AMIGA EMULATORS!

:-(

[jjans]

OK, what is the scoop on these new Amigas?

This is my understanding and maybe a user can clarify for me any misconceptions I may have.

1. AmigaOne currently ships with runs OS3.9(a classic Amiga OS) or soon to be released the new 4.0, which is a more efficient and smaller than the bloated Windows XP for example. There is currently a limited choice of apps/games available as of yet. But it has a Classic Amiga 'Look and Feel'.

2. It also is shipped with LinuxPPC, and/or Debian Linux, which includes tons of software.

3.  Its hardware is other than hard drives, floppies CD-Rom etc is as follows:
-AmigaOne-XE motherboard with either G3 (750Fx@800MHz) or G4 (745x@800MHz)
-512MB registered memory  
-Soundblaster Live 5.1 sound card
-ATI Radeon 7000 32MB graphics card (or better supported ATI -Radeon card if/when supported by OS4)
-7-bay Midi ATX tower with plexiglass side panel
-OS4-enabled BIOS
-Onboard ethernet and USB

4. The 'Classic Amiga side of AmigaOne is emulated using 'UAE' installed with Linux.

5. Eyetech's site is quoting 1148.89 GP for the power system.


I have currently a 2.6 Ghz system dual booting XP, and SUSE Linux, that already support my humble little ATI Radeon 7000 (no 3D in Linux however). My Linux also includes UAE, which in my humble opinion is still unworkable. I also have Cloanto's AF/WINUAE, which works as advertised on a better percentage of 'Classic' Amiga Software than UAE.

I understand the desire to revive the Amiga, but AmigaOne is going into a totally different direction than Classic Amiga (as it has to), that us 'Grumpy Old Farts' aka Amiga Oldtimer Fanatics are not going to recognise anyways.

My question is, why spend the money on this AmigaOne? Why not emulate on an already existing system (yes regrettably the Windoze) :-?

I am burning images of my Classic Amiga onto CD's before the 880K floppies die. My A500 based system seems to want to run forever, but I wish to preserve my Amiga collection. What is wrong with that? :-?

As for BTTR, I actually found a game or 2 that I used to replace originals I bought years ago, that had become corrupt. I payed for the game years ago, but now others can enjoy the the game now for free. Doesn't bother me, and I suspect most developers would appreciate the renewed interest, rather than having their creations forgotten.

[jeffimix]

I just thought about it, and I think AmigaAnywhere was an attempt to get at that market. Most games on PDAs and Cellphones are about the same level of gfx and audio as old 80s games anyhow. I would love to see legit bundles of old Amiga games sold for ten bucks or what ever, maybe with a copy of WinFellow or a licensed Kickstart 1.3 ROM, on a mini-CD or some such similiar. Make the games just boot the emulator so it's transparent.

Anyhow, the modern Amiga market, that is, the PPC boards Both from Eyetech And Genesi, don't have anything to do with the old games or hardware, the hardware hacking is being gotten rid of, and the legacy, which is good in my opinion, I was looking through my C:\Windows\System\Drivers folder earlier today, some of that code hasn't been updated since the mid to early nineties, some of the timestamps literally say 1995. The modern machine are about a unique, friendly, well designed OS. It is light, fast and repsonsive, it has low overhead and is highly flexible, for the most part it makes much more sense when you look at the structure of it than Windows or Linux do. Sure the programs on it are nothing near cutting edge, nor is the hardware. Frankly, I've tried out many browser on my PC that lack support for thingsl ike CSS, or even Javascript (which Ibrowse has ofc) over 90% of the web works fine, with javascript, I'd bet that 95%+ of websites work fine. Sure very little can read excel and .doc documents, but if you need to work with your work files at home, you can save stuff in Microsoft Office as an HTML file. I don't have much experience with excel, but I'd bet you can save files so that they'd be compatible with the older Excel versions TurboCalc supports. I'm giving up on my 2000, it gets messed up too easily, it's far too finicky, and unreliable as a main machine, I hope with the money I make off've it's parts on e-bay I could fund a MicroA1... I'm 17, I haven't used an Amiga for very long, and for me it has nothing to do with the hardware or the games. I'm really not much of a gamer, and while I love to mess aroudn with computers, and I see the nice layout of the old Amiga hardware, it's outdated. End of the line for it.

Anyhow my somewhat digressive rant is over. I apologize in advance if I hijack this thread further from where it started...

[jjans]

Your remarks make sense to me. Esp about the hardware bashing, although I loved doing it on the Amiga, but that is history now like you say.

My stuff from work, I export to WP format, and then I can use the documents on my Amiga 500 with WordPerfect. Doesn't help the case for buying the AmigaOne.

The PDA market remark certainly states a great argument for protecting Classic Amiga software. I'd never thought of that.

[crown]

Don't forget, both A1 and Pegasos needs UAE for backward compability.

[pjhutch]

Unfortunately, none of the PDAs will run UAE (they are not powerful enough to emulate the CPU AND the Chipsets). You can get UAE for Windows (incl X Box), Unix/Linux, MacOS, BeOS, DOS and there is Aros.

For the A1 and AmigaOS 4, for it to get off the ground it needs *Software*, until the Full version of AOS is released and developers start working on it. I can`t see it get a larger market.
Having the greatest OS in the world, is useless w/o software to run on it. People won`t buy it... simple as that.

[jjans]

@crown:

I see you have an AmigaOne. I'd love to hear more about your experience on this machine.

Why did you choose the A1 over the Peg that you sold? I am interested on your thoughts of the MorphOS from a users point of view as well.

Are you able to use the ATI Radeon to accelerate 3D under the Linux? (I cannot under mine...)

[jeffimix]

@PJhutch

I'd give the PDAs at most a few years before they are strong enough to run UAE, I mean, many of them are already several hundred megahertz (however XScale/ARM is very strong hertz for hertz) and the RAM/display is alright already, my 320x240 zire display is clear enough for most amiga games. but it's true that at present pdas are too slow for that. But look at Popcap, they make lots of simple games for windows/mac using Java, same concept... AmigaNaywhere is obviously better for this than UAE is though.

[Hyperspeed]

Another few things to remember are:

* The AmigaOne will run AmigaOS 4 exclusively. The Pegasos machine
will not be able to run AmigaOS 4 because the AmigaOne has a
protection chip.

PCs will not be able to run AmigaOS 4, Macintosh will not be able to
run AmigaOS 4. It is exclusive - for us!

:-)

AmigaOS 4 is now out for developers to start making games and apps and
so they don't need UAE to run classic Amiga games because AmigaOS 4
has emulation built in, it's very own special emulation which is far
better than UAE. JIT I think it's called, someone contribute to this
side of things!

:-)

AmigaOS 4 runs on classic PowerPC cards AND the big brother G3
machines.

Playstation2 owners didn't get many good games for the first 6 months
of that machine and they enjoyed the backward compatibility that the
Playstation2 offered - same goes for AmigaOne.

AmigaOne users will most have fun running classic Amiga games and apps
at warp-speed and then gradually get drip fed super AmigaOne 600Mhz
Radeon style programs in the coming months. Just like the Playstation2
users.

There is a huge potential market for re-selling the old classics here
because now everyone who buys an AmigaOne will be able to play these
games as fast as they had ever dreamed on classic hardware. Remember
dreaming of that £600 Blizzard 1260 with 128mb of RAM?

NOW YOU CAN GO THAT FAST!

I think Hyperion are also porting Quake 2 to native G3 hardware, so
for benchmarking it will be exciting to play this for a few months
whilst the real original killer-apps come along!

I think we need to protect our classic software heritage rather than
let it be pillaged by the PC users, and even the Amiga owners who are
dismissing/belittling classic hardware.

If you have a crumbling old A2000 with dying hardware, sell it to
people who can make use of the bits. It may not be in full health and
doesn't represent the majority of Amiga hardware which still lives on
in a 100% fully working condition.

Oh, and for God's sake get an Amiga laptop out! Someone! PLEASE!

:-D :-D :-D

[ajk]

@Hyperspeed

As someone already pointed out, it is UAE that allows us to run most old Amiga games on OS4. Without UAE we couldn't. And UAE wouldn't exist on OS4 unless it had existed for other platforms since a long time ago.

As such OS4 emulates only the 68k CPU, which is fine for new programs and will run them nice and fast, but most games simpl y won't work. It does not emulate custom chips at all.

[HopperJF]

And since it can't emulate an A1 it cant really be stealing software revenues,

There arent any A1 software revenues to steal.