Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Shark Os4  (Read 7871 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sdesros

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2003
  • Posts: 205
    • Show only replies by sdesros
    • http://www.501st.ca/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #29 from previous page: June 24, 2004, 05:03:35 PM »
There is fullscreen support too you know. ;)
Steph
 

Offline Effy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 2053
    • Show only replies by Effy
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2004, 06:49:22 PM »
Miki060 : Okay, with my A1230+CV64/3D history in mind your workbench does look breathtaking, I have to admit that. But how well can WinUAE emulate AGA demo´s ??? I come from the C64 scene where demo´s were the most important stuff and the same goes for Amiga demo´s, at least in my personal point of view. No offense to game freaks ...

Offline itix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2380
    • Show only replies by itix
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2004, 06:58:31 PM »
SharkPPC is not going to help you because most of AGA demos dont work from PPC OS.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline DaNi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2003
  • Posts: 281
    • Show only replies by DaNi
    • http://morphos.blog.com.es/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2004, 01:33:09 PM »
Sharkppc is one of the best option for me, you can have you classic amiga with all customs chip, the mediator with your expasions and a fast ppc cpu with os4 installed. You dont need use uae for play demos, you can boot from diskdrive etc, for me, the best =)

cheers
EFIKA 5K2 PowerPC G2 400Mhz, MorphOS 2.7, 128MB 266MHz DDR RAM, FSB 133MHz, 500GB HDD, Radeon 9200 PRO 128MB, USB HUB x8.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show only replies by Piru
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2004, 01:40:25 PM »
Quote
You dont need use uae for play demos

Sure. You just need to shutdown and boot without Shark. Much better than UAE, agreed.

Quote
you can boot from diskdrive

With Shark disabled, sure.

SharkPPC won't have direct access to Amiga side of the system, so it's quite impossible to run Amiga HW banging apps from within the Shark. Naturally you can boot direct off the Amiga, but then you lose Shark again.

This being the case, doesn't it make much more sense to have plain A1200 (maybe 030 accelerator) for games, and another system for new system conform things? It's cheaper than Mediator + SharkPPC, too.
 

Offline Framiga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2003
  • Posts: 4096
    • Show only replies by Framiga
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2004, 01:41:05 PM »
nice grab, Michele :-)

Keep it up

Ciao

 

Offline Jose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2871
    • Show only replies by Jose
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2004, 05:09:38 PM »
@KennyR

"...think about all those horrible 1991 A1200 bottlenecks. PIO HD access (ARGH), slow memory bandwidth, the works. Why pay so much money for a card that's going to be able to reach about 20% of its true potential in an ancient Amiga, an ancient Amiga that could die any time soon?"

As was the case already with many Amiga accelerators the memory and controllers, and in this case the PCI bus, are not restricted to the Classic Amiga's motherboard constraints. The access to memory on the Shark would not be done through the Amiga motherboard, same to the PCI accesses.
Actually Elbox has said that the Shark (or was that the Shark + only?) was an all computer in itself, with access to classic hardware. So there you go, one more PPC choice.
\\"We made Amiga, they {bleep}ed it up\\"
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show only replies by Piru
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2004, 05:53:30 PM »
Quote
Actually Elbox has said that the Shark (or was that the Shark + only?) was an all computer in itself, with access to classic hardware.

Ok, so far so good. SharkPPC is a standalone system on PCI card.

Now here's the tricky part: It's said to have full access to Amiga custom chipset. But that will never work.

Lets imagine as simple thing as a game/demo reading a trackfull of data from a floppy. It will write custom registers to set up DMA for read operation. The address is chip memory. How if the game would be running on SharkPPC system, the address would be local memory there (but lets assume both systems have chip memory mapped 1:1, so addresses remain the same).

Now lets assume that magically the custom registers reads & writes are relayed between the two machines (including new state of custom read-once registers). The final register write initializes DMA transfers from floppy to memory (this happens on the A1200). Once the floppy DMA is finished, the data has been transferred. Next the read routine will use blitter to decode the MFM encoded data read off the floppy. Track has been loaded.

But, here comes the problem. The custom DMA and blitter DMA work on the A1200 memory space, not SharkPPC's. There is no way the system knows the data resulting from the blit should somehow be magically transferred back to SharkPPC!

This applies to other DMA, too. For example writing to a floppy would require the data to somehow be transferred to A1200 first, before the DMA begins.

I ignored several other problems to get this far (actual DMA):

- How can SharkPPC know the value of Custom registers that can be read only once? Reading once loses the status forever.

- How can interrupts be relayed?

- How can SharkPPC ensure the emulation and Amiga 1200 status remain synced?


Conclusion: SharkPPC cannot have access to Amiga custom registers.
 

Offline KennyR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 8081
    • Show only replies by KennyR
    • http://wrongpla.net
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2004, 06:20:25 PM »
Quote
Jose wrote:
Actually Elbox has said that the Shark (or was that the Shark + only?) was an all computer in itself, with access to classic hardware. So there you go, one more PPC choice.


You shouldn't believe everything Elbox say.

It's cheaper and easier just to buy a Pegasos or even an A1 now anyway, no fiddling with ancient hardware.
 

Offline HopperJF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2003
  • Posts: 1531
    • Show only replies by HopperJF
    • http://www.michael-powell.blogspot.com
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2004, 07:36:02 PM »
SharkOS!!  :-P
Now THAT is a cool OS name  8-)
Religion is for people who believe in hell.
Spirituality is for people who have been there.
 

Offline Jose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2871
    • Show only replies by Jose
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2004, 07:50:02 PM »
@Piru

Sounds interesting and I honestly can't answer those but some things come to mind...

- How come there is a working version of OS4 on the Blizzard PPC in wich DeluxePaint works fine? (I really don't know but  by this logic it should not work right?)


- "How can SharkPPC ensure the emulation and Amiga 1200 status remain synced?"

Maybe either there is emulation working and 68k halted, or 68k is working by itself and one can't have custom chipset acess? :-?

I can't think of anything about the interrupts problem though.... If some card on the Classic issues an interrupt and the interrupt changes the contents of some registers I guess the only possibility would be to have new drivers/Patches written for those cards :-?
\\"We made Amiga, they {bleep}ed it up\\"
 

Offline Jose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 2871
    • Show only replies by Jose
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2004, 08:04:10 PM »
I was thinking about it and the only way to prevents apps colliding with each other with custom hardware access was not to do it and use the OS. The same thing apply here, so I guess what you were talking about was how the emulation, for example with a demo that has taken over the hardware, knew about 68k interrupts for example? I guess it couldn't know, but demos and code directly accesing the hardware that didn't rely on 68k interrupts would still work? Didn't much demos took control of the hardware but still used the OS for some stuff (like interrups)?
Must admit I'm half in the dark here...
\\"We made Amiga, they {bleep}ed it up\\"
 

Offline HopperJF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2003
  • Posts: 1531
    • Show only replies by HopperJF
    • http://www.michael-powell.blogspot.com
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2004, 09:32:35 PM »
Quote

Jose wrote:
:pint:
Jose


Cheers mate!  :-)

:pint:
Religion is for people who believe in hell.
Spirituality is for people who have been there.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show only replies by Piru
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2004, 09:44:22 PM »
Quote
How come there is a working version of OS4 on the Blizzard PPC in wich DeluxePaint works fine? (I really don't know but by this logic it should not work right?)

No, it's not the same. Here the CPU and custom chips are on the same system (memory, custom regs, dma etc).

BPPC is directly connected to system bus, shark is not.
 

Offline Piru

  • \' union select name,pwd--
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 6946
    • Show only replies by Piru
    • http://www.iki.fi/sintonen/
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2004, 09:52:11 PM »
@Jose

Anything using DMA, interrupts, or depending on read-once custom register values would not work.

DMA examples: Paula audio, Floppy read/write, blitting, copper, planar display.
Interrupt examples: Any code programming interrupts directly.

In short: Nothing would work.
 

Offline weirdami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 3776
    • Show only replies by weirdami
    • Http://Bindingpolymer.com
Re: Shark Os4
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2004, 04:09:38 AM »
@Naeem
Quote
All things come to those who wait


-All + Good

:-P
----
Binding Polymer: Keeping you together since 1892.