Should I sue my auto shop?

[redrumloa]

I have a Ford Ranger which is getting up there in miles. ~2 weeks ago I gave it to an auto shop owned by a friend of a friend, to change the timing belt and do a major tuneup. I got the truck back and it seemed to run good at first. The total cost was in the ballpark of $650.

The next day it began to stall at red lights, the transmission started to make a whining sound and smelled of gear oil. I returned the truck to them. At first they blew off the whining sound as normal power steering sound. After I insisted it wasn't and it was new they changed the fluid. - $no cost

After i got the truck back the idling problem was fixed, but less than a week later the tranny froze up while at a traffic light. It was towed back to them and they said it was no fault of theirs. They quoted a repair of $1000 to replace it with another used tranny, but they gave me the option to source my own used tranny which brought the total down to just over $800.

I got the truck back tuesday night and it was working fine, by Wed(yesterday) morning it was starting to make a whining sound again and I was smelling gear oil. i figured today I'd bring it back in, but it didn't make it. Late last night while driving ~65mph the tranny sounded like a daisey cutter and exploded, locking the rear wheels completely and sending me skidding/sliding almost completely out of control. Luckily I did handle the skid onto the sholder.

Here's the deal. The first reaction out of the shop was basically "You supplied the part, it failed. No fault of ours". However it isn't that easy. I have been getting suspicious of incompetance of the shop since day one, and I confirmed it this morning. After a little research it turns out this 92 Ford Ranger's Mazda manual transmission actually uses MERCON ATF, not gear oil. Mercon is red, gear oil is black. They didn't put the right fluid in the transmission.

So to sum things up, it is now my belief this shop is the cause of both transmission failures. I have spent a total of over $1500 at this shop in the last couple weeks on a truck that probably isn't worth $1500. $800+ of was on a transmission that probably was killed by them in the first place. I am calling again here shortly to speak with the owner. If he doesn't respond properly I will probably persue a lawsuit. Has any US folk here brought an auto shop to small claims court? What was your experience? I have a hard time just cutting my losses on this, adding up all the money and lost time etc it is getting very clostly.

[whabang]

You should demand your money back, and then go to another mechanic. :-o

[odin]

Demanding something is very different from actually getting it. I'd say sue em, not that I have any idea how much a court case is gonna cost.

[Morley]

Just because they filled regular gear oil instead of ATF won't automatically ruin the gear. Check the specs again to see if manual gear can be used. Trannys can be very sensible to the type of oil used. I broke my rear axle in a week because I filled the wrong oil, I misread the markings on the can.

Anyhow, I think you'll never get the money back anyway. A lawsuit is gonna cost $$$. Haven't you got some sort of consumer counsel or similar in the states? Contact them first, most companys don't want trouble with them.

Oh, btw, this is a prime example of why I always use genuine-brand auto-shops or whatever it is called in English. I have heard too many horror stories about independant auto-shops.

[Glaucus]

First off all, you may want to ask around on this forum: Ranger Forums

Secondly, I'd take the tranny to a Ford (or possibly even a Mazda) dealership and have them do a post-mortem on the tranny. If the Tranny siezed up because of the wrong fluid, you should be able to examine the fluid to determine if that was the true cause. Mazda makes good parts, I find it hard to believe that both trannies would die in the same manner so quickly after leaving their shop.

I would also double check the use of MERCON ATF fluid in a manual transmission. I've never heard of that really (btw, is yours a 4x4, or is it a standard rear wheel drive, that might have something to do with it). You'll also have to prove that they used gear oil instead of ATF, if what you  need really is Mercon ATF. I hope they're were dumb enough to mark the type of fluid used on the receipt!!! Good luck!

And yes, mechanic shops are notorious for incompetency and criminal negligence. I used to hangout with this mechanic guy who boasted about how easy it was to rip people off. That's why I've been doing my own repairs on my car as of late, I can't stand that kind of {bleep}.

Oh, and if they refuse to replace your tranny at no cost, be sure to throw a molotov {bleep}tail through their front window.  ;-)

  - Mike

[T_Bone]

Morley wrote:

Oh, btw, this is a prime example of why I always use genuine-brand auto-shops or whatever it is called in English. I have heard too many horror stories about independant auto-shops.

Same here, but on a $1500 car I usually don't bother, dealer certified garages are usually expensive.

According to this thread:

[edited out]

(aw WTF? that link should work! somethings b0rken? Xoops doesn't like colons or something)

http://tinyurl.com/3eyre

they say that ford dealers can only get the fluid in 45 gallon barrels. That probably explains why a small garage might not stock any.

[Floid]

Well, yep, even the manual transmission does seem to require Mercon.  Ow.

If it's a 4WD, the diff and/or transfer case (can you tell I'm not really sure how the drivetrain's laid out? ) could still require gear oil... but if the actual transmission was full of it (and not blackened ATF), then unfortunately, it's probably worth a lawsuit if you can't convince them any other way.

Perhaps you can get your insurance company to do some of the legwork?  I assume they could somehow be talked into paying for lab analysis of the fluid (to prove it's gear oil), since it's in their interest to discourage repair snafus that put drivers and vehicles at risk.  In fact, getting a "you f***ed up!" letter from the insurance company might be more 'friendly' than immediately dragging it to court; I'd assume the loss of an insurance company's sanction would be a bit of a hurt for a small shop?

A small garage can easily go down to Advance or probably K-Mart and pick something "Mercon-compatible" up.  (I think  Dexron is effectively compatible, though warranty-voiding; it's Chrysler that uses fluid *completely* different from the other two.)

[Methuselas]

@ Red,

I would DEFINATELY get a second opinion. I traded a computer a few years back ( a well spec'ed one, at the time) to a mechanic 'friend' of mine, who needed one for his garage. He told me that there was a radiator problem, but gave me the part that would 'fix' it. I know next to nothing about cars, so I did it.

I couldn't get 5 miles before the car overheated and died. It was a nightmare. It made me late to interviews, etc. I had a REAL friend of mine, who's an ASE certified mechanic, look at it and all he had to do was remove the carb to inform me that it had a blow piston and a rod knock. The oil pan hadn't been changed in so long, the oil within it was a solid mess of goop. My 'friend', who is a mechanic, 'claimed' he didn't know.

I never got reimbursed for the car and it was eventually towed by my apartment complex, who claimed it was abandoned. They wouldn't refund the money it would cost to get it out of storage, so I left it. I haven't had a car since.

I would look into it, 'cos I know for a fact that independent garages will 'break' things to make you come back. I know it's hard to compete against the Name-Brand Facilities, but that's still unexcusable. Odds are, it will cost more to sue, but a place like that should have its doors closed. It's obvious they're in the market to only rip people off.

If they give you any grief, a high-powered sniper rifle can work marvels in such a situation.  :lol:

[Morley]

they say that ford dealers can only get the fluid in 45 gallon barrels. That probably explains why a small garage might not stock any.

Well, if they filled regular gear-oil instead of ATF into the gearbox because they couldn't get any ATF, sounds silly. ATF Mercon/DexronI+II+III should be easily available everywhere, at least it is here in Europe. One of many things that differs normal gear-oils a _lot_ from ATF is that they contain additives that can eat up bearings and components in a gearbox meant to be run on ATF fluid. If you have to replace the oil in a manual tranny that requires ATF fluid, it is better to use normal motoroil than gearoil as a quick fix until you get hold of the recommended spec. Some gearboxes that require ATF have regular SAE10/40 listed as alternative oil.

[Morley]

@red

Just to answer your original post: Sue the motherf***ers. If they don't cooperate that is.

[Ilwrath]

Ouch...  That's a bummer about the truck.  As for suing, though.  I'd try to exhaust every other possible solution, first.  

Now, the fair disclaimer...  Don't take the following as legal advice.  I'm not a lawyer.  I would certainly recommend talking with a real lawyer to confirm what you can and can't legally do.  But, as someone who has looked into suing for something rather similiar (I didn't bring suit) I have the following info for you.  

Florida small claims court looks to be a little better organized than Michigan's.  I found this small claims FAQ from a county in Florida.  It should be very similiar to your case, and small claims courts are typically standardized at the state level.  

Clerk of the Court - Escambia County, Florida

But, according to that, you'd be looking at about $80 to bring the suit.  And, then, if you're able to win the judgement, you'd probably have to pay for the collection method, as well.   In other words, the court can award you the money, but then it's your responsibility to try to collect it.  :-/  

Now, as I understand it, the maximum amount you can win from this method may not be all that much.  Since you sourced the rebuilt transmission yourself, the shop may not be responsible to reimburse you for the damages to EITHER of your trans.  Most repair shops have a waiver on any coincidental damage as a result of their repairs.  In other words, with that waiver, you may only be able to collect what THEY charged you in parts and labor for the repair.  (Not the total amount you spent on parts that ended up destroyed.)  Whether this waiver stands up in court or not, is something that would have to be decided by the judge.  If you bring a strong case, and the repair company is unprepared, I suspect the waiver would be found meaningless, and you could collect full damages, but you never know...  

So, even winning may not collect what you hope.  Especially when you factor in the amount of time and effort you'd spend.  :-(

Personally, this would be my course of action.
1) Talk with the repair shop and bring them evidence of their mistake.  (Don't GIVE it to them, but let them know you have it)  Pressure them a bit and see if you can get them to cave some.
If not, then
2) Talk with a real lawyer.  Find your actual rights in this situation.  And, if possible, have the lawyer draft you a threating letter to send the repair shop.  Most lawyers will do this for a nominal fee.  Hopefully this will be enough to scare the beejeez out of the repair shop and get them to cave in and pay you back.
If not, then
3) Sit down and do a real cost/benefit analysis of pushing further, now that you know the facts.

Good luck, my friend.

[Glaucus]

So any news there Red???

  - Mike

[redrumloa]

So any news there Red???

I couldn't get through to the owner yesterday, and the shop supervisor is now trying to claim they never changed the fluid.

I just spoke with the owner a short while ago, I am waiting on a call back. Stay tuned..