Which to choose? 'Red pill or Blue pill'

[itix]

At AmiGbg the conflict was quite obvious. Jens from Individual Computers responded to a question if he would consider supporting pegasos / morphos, with the frase "and a serious question please?" and then continued ranting about Bill Buck being a menace to society.

I know he doesn't like BB... But I don't have personal problems with him and his Catweasel card is getting support from MorphOS software (Frodo).

Perhaps the situation is extreme here, but the amiga community is quite large in Sweden, and loyal to the extreme. Many of us old users have followed amiga for two decades and would probably follow amiga inc through the gates of hell before we switched to any 3rd party solution.

Don't they know Amiga Inc. is no longer in the scene? But you are right for extreme... (Samface, trgse's anti-MOS code and your "if you have a peg user you are not welcome" statement).

It´s really sad. I sold my pegasos II even though I liked it, but everybody else has an AmigaOne here so it got kind of lonely. And I had to sell it cheap to, becauase here we are well stocked with brand new Peg 2 boards that nobody will buy. I should have saved the board and used it as a server, but I was short on cash

You could use next generation Amiga when everyone else was stuck with their Linux boxes so your investment wasn't bad at all. If you think A1 suits your needs then why not. It is your money nevertheless. At least you could rejoin your user club now if it was important for you.

But I can't still understand why ban WinUAE, Amithlon or Pegasos users from the club. It is like lonely dark fortress in the middle of nothing.

[Coder]

Here in Sweden almost everyone I now use A1 or Classic Amiga. If you use a Pegasos you are not welcome in most amiga clubs.

I am afraid that's one of the reasons everything is such a mess these days. I know that if you have an Amiga group meeting you might get strange looks when asking Pegasos questions. The same goes for mailinglists. But that's not what I am talking about. It's the, oh you got an Amiga? You suck! You got an Pegasos? You suck, attitude. For some people if you have a machine that is different then the machine they got your the worst enemy.

If there is some kind of Amiga show/meeting and there are some Pegasos users that just want to see how's it going with the Amiga and they hear this ranting about the Pegasos you can imagine they are upset. Goes for the otherway around too. Sadly, that's the way it is these days.

I have no respect for people that only want to cause trouble. From both sides!

Coder

[reflect]

@ itix

But I can't still understand why ban WinUAE, Amithlon or Pegasos users from the club. It is like lonely dark fortress in the middle of nothing.

I'm sorry, but I don't know of a single usergroup that bans people that are using something else than Amiga in Sweden. I think this picture that has been portrayed here.. well, it's not the picture I have of it.

[Paul_Gadd]

It´s really sad

Yeah they sound like a right bunch of sad {censorship}. if they are really anti-morphos/amithlon/uae then i hope all software developers using the above give this whole community the middle finger,(lets see how you pussies like that).

[Coder]

There are just a few people that are being a total arse. They are spreading all that crap. They are on both sides. The rest of us get along just fine.

Coder

[reflect]

Paul_Gadd wrote:

It´s really sad

Yeah they sound like a right bunch of sad {censorship}. if they are really anti-morphos/amithlon/uae then i hope all software developers using the above give this whole community the middle finger,(lets see how you pussies like that).

Unless you know first hand how it really is, I don't think you should voice so strong opinions. It's probably more like what coder says, there's a few people on both sides stirring the can of  s h i t e..

[crown]

reflect wrote:
@ itix

But I can't still understand why ban WinUAE, Amithlon or Pegasos users from the club. It is like lonely dark fortress in the middle of nothing.

I'm sorry, but I don't know of a single usergroup that bans people that are using something else than Amiga in Sweden. I think this picture that has been portrayed here.. well, it's not the picture I have of it.

Well, It's not like it's a big sign hanging over doors that reads "pegasos users will get shot" but you don't exactly get welcomed with open arms, right? I think it's true to say that the conflict has caused a lot of anger and dissapointment. If you are an ACG member, wouldn't you say that AmiGbg was an event that supported A-inc and not Genesis? Or would you say that both plattforms were promoted equally, and equally welcome? Was Genesis even invited? No, I feel it's safe to say that MorphOS i generally frowned upon, even by a lot of members of your own local club. Besides, It was quite clear that pegasos user clubs were not welcome when the different amiga clubs sought to unite under one banner.

But hey, I don't say that they are wrong. You don't have to love the butterfly or the boingball. This has always been a battle of hearts, not a battle between two systems. And it will continue to be. Personally, I´m glad that there are alternatives to the x86 out there, and if everybody starts using AOS4, then thats fine. If everybody starts using MorphOS, that´s fine too. I can live with both.

What bothers me is that we, the community, have always been Amiga. Not some company. And now we get divided by some silly legal {bleep} between two companies. Well, I for one still say "We are amiga!". I hope I'm not the only one.

[reflect]

crown wrote:

I'm sorry, but I don't know of a single usergroup that bans people that are using something else than Amiga in Sweden. I think this picture that has been portrayed here.. well, it's not the picture I have of it.

Well, It's not like it's a big sign hanging over doors that reads "pegasos users will get shot" but you don't exactly get welcomed with open arms, right? I think it's true to say that the conflict has caused a lot of anger and dissapointment. If you are an ACG member, wouldn't you say that AmiGbg was an event that supported A-inc and not Genesis? Or would you say that both plattforms were promoted equally, and equally welcome? Was Genesis even invited? No, I feel it's safe to say that MorphOS i generally frowned upon, even by a lot of members of your own local club. Besides, It was quite clear that pegasos user clubs were not welcome when the different amiga clubs sought to unite under one banner.

I'm one of the founders of ACG Gothenburg, yes. I think the goal of AmiGBG is on their page, it was never intended to show off all the aspects of the amiga-like systems. But anyway, I'm not here to debate that. What I do object to is what you say about usergroups. Even if members are opposed to something, that still doesn't represent the usergroup. And I stand by my comment that no usergroup today bans people using different solutions than Amiga. We have people that use Pegasos and UAE in our usergroup. I know SUA has some AROS folks.

And then about the Amiga clubs uniting, when that happened, there were no Pegasos usergroups around. What the big fight was about, iirc, was that it was to be named "usergroup of generic PPC platforms" or something to that effect when most people seemed to want something completely different (disclaimer, this is from memory).

What bothers me is that we, the community, have always been Amiga. Not some company. And now we get divided by some silly legal {bleep} between two companies. Well, I for one still say "We are amiga!". I hope I'm not the only one.

I don't think you're alone. I'm dreadfully tired of the bickerings going on. I used to be very active on the forums, nowadays I don't bother, this being an exception. I have too many other things going on in my life that I don't have the time to sit around and sulk about what platform X chose or why Y isn't supported there.  

[cecilia]

What bothers me is that we, the community, have always been Amiga. Not some company. And now we get divided by some silly legal {bleep} between two companies. Well, I for one still say "We are amiga!". I hope I'm not the only one.

you are most definity NOT the only one!!!

this hatred of bill (fill-in-the-last-name-of-choice) has got to stop. none of the Bills (and there are three of them) speak for me, none represent ME, and none give a rats A55 about ME!

Amiga is US. I've been saying this for a long time, now and I think most of us do really feel this way.

today, before i logged on I used IFX on my WinUAE to make images for a game that is being written for MOS. eventually, it can be made for Amiga (with gfx cards or emulation).

So, where is the conflict? only in the minds of silly, silly people.

when I 1st saw Amiga what impressed me was how i could RELATE to it - i could multitask, i could make animations, draw pictures - be an artist!!!

i didn't care about the damn custom chips (at 1st i didn't know about them). I love my Amiga 2000, but as long as my emulation and peg FEEL like my amiga, than I am a happy camper.

if i can afford an A1 and OS4, i'd love to have that too. esp if it FEELS right.  

[crown]

Well, then we see things differently. When I bough my peg 1, I got mail calling me all sorts of ugly things. When I engaged in discussions and pleaded for unity and everybodys right to call themselves "amiga user" I got a similar response. Not in open discussions, but privately. I got quite tired of defending myself all the time.

Therefore, when I bought a Peg 2, I didn't say a word to anybody. And then I sold it.

And "What the big fight was about" was perhaps if the word Amiga could include "amiga-like systems" or not. Most people seems to feel it cannot. Amiga = Amiga inc and nothing else. The definition that Amiga = users is not generally accepted. Many argued that a federation should seek to be affiliated with Amiga inc.

As I previously stated, I couldn't care less of any stupid court fight, but when something that's supposed to be fun causes me great discomfort, I back off. So for now, I'll stick with my A4000.

[crown]

Great! Seems like we are at least 3 then, and probably a lot more.

[cecilia]

crown, you are welcome here. by me and everyone else here.
relax and enjoy yourself.
we are all amiga brothers and sisters!

and if someone bothers you, tell me and i'll slap them silly!
 :lol:

[reflect]

crown wrote:
Well, then we see things differently. When I bough my peg 1, I got mail calling me all sorts of ugly things. When I engaged in discussions and pleaded for unity and everybodys right to call themselves "amiga user" I got a similar response. Not in open discussions, but privately. I got quite tired of defending myself all the time.

Therefore, when I bought a Peg 2, I didn't say a word to anybody. And then I sold it.

I'm sorry to hear that, I had no idea. I wouldn't even bother, it's your life, you have the right to choose whatever you wish.

And "What the big fight was about" was perhaps if the word Amiga could include "amiga-like systems" or not. Most people seems to feel it cannot. Amiga = Amiga inc and nothing else. The definition that Amiga = users is not generally accepted. Many argued that a federation should seek to be affiliated with Amiga inc.

Ah, well I can only speak for myself and my views, and when the name was either going to be something along the lines of  "Confederation of Amiga users" or "Generic PPC platforms" the choice was clear. Without Amiga in the name (cause that's the ONE thing that connects everyone AND would attract users) nothing would become of it. No one would read the name and think "hey, that sounds like it's for me!" you know? I objected strongly here and really tried to make my POV clear from all angles (disclaimer, from memory again).

[Acill]

Getting back on topic... As you can see there is alot of feelings about the choice to make. I think the Amiga1 people are a bit upset us Pegasos users have such a great OS with our machine while they kjeep getting screwed and are fed the line of your OS4 will be released soon crap. I recomend you call and see if you can find a Pegasos user in the area, try the machine and it will sell itself. I thin if all these Amiga loving anti Pegasos users tried one, they would love it. I mean realy TRY it. Not just move the mouse and say, "Its not an Amiga" The truth is at present its more of an Amiga then the A1 is.

[minator]

What exactly is an Amiga?
Is it a piece of hardware, software, a combination, a name?

or what I think:

an experience.


In the 80's and 90's that experience could only be provided by a set of custom chips, a 68K CPU and OS / Software.

These days Moores law (i.e. chips get faster) means that exact same experience can be provided on completely unrelated OS / software and hardware.

In fact I can run the same software at vastly better speeds ON MY PC than any of my real Amiga's could ever get close to.

Amiga is a brand name and an experience, no one solution available today is any more valid than any other for "Amiga-ness".  They all use different processors and none have the custom chips.

If you wish to argue that one solution is more valid because it contains original code then by that definition my PC is the most valid of all as it uses the original OS on UAE.

If someone thinks you're not using an Amiga argue that lot with them...

Only one can claim the brand name but the *experience* it will provide will be no better (or worse) than any other solution.

we are all amiga brothers and sisters!

Exactly.

My own experience is "talk is cheap" especially on the internet.  When people get together they get on fine irrespective of "colour".  As is usually the case it is a small number of idiots who cause the trouble.

If someone tries to kick someone out of a club, ask everyone in the club - in public - is this the club's policy.  Then you'll get the real answer...



PS I use BeOS as my main OS on this PC because it is so Amiga like!

PS/2
I say take the yellow pill with the smiley face :-o

[gizz72]

@everyone
I understand your feelings. Actually I envy all you have clubs members and all. The fact is contrary here. There are no more clubs here. I only know just 1 friend who still uses an expanded A500. Heck, we struggle how alone we are but satisfied by our love for it. That's reason I joined amiga.org to meet ppl, like you guys, who still love and cherished the Amiga and what the future possibilities these new HW/SW could do. I'm still glad we're still together despite some differences. Money is no object. It's the unity. Guys, our Amiga has EVOLVED! It matured!
I hope this thread would not become a debate. It's only a 'choice' I want to make. Actually, If I could afford all I buy them all. Being with no club here is like lonely. Alone. It's hard! You guys are lucky ppl :-). The only thing that keeps me going is my love with Amiga. Nothing more. Please let's just share a unity and friendship and bring back those happy days when we first bought it and share knowledge with it.
Thanks again for your comments. I'll remember this thread as an inspiring one. Good day to all.  :-D  :-D  :-D