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Author Topic: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!  (Read 2275 times)

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Offline whabangTopic starter

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{bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« on: May 16, 2004, 05:48:39 PM »
{bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
Some {bleep}head found a hole in my SMTP-server and used it to send spam for sixteen hours before I noticed it! :-x
Now I'm listed in SpamCop's blacklist. Wunderbar!:madashell:

I'm sooooo going to take legal actions on this son of a biatch!
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Offline Hattig

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2004, 06:04:06 PM »
Argh! What SMTP server were you running?
 

Offline ironfist

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2004, 06:09:30 PM »
You had an open relay?
 

Offline macto

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2004, 06:12:54 PM »
Do everyone a favour, go after the spammer *and* SpamCop.  I'm sick of playing games with email because some anti-spam fascist dictates how we are allowed to use email.

This isn't to trivialize your problem because the spammers were clearly doing something illegal, in addition to comprimising your system and being a general pain in the behind, but:


Just to be clear, I hate receiving spam but it takes a few hours per year to identify it and delete it manually.  Compare this the time wasted to when an ISPs SMTP server goes down and you cannot use your own, because of these anti-spam fascists.  Or to when one ISP blocks email from another ISP for an arbitrary reason.  Many, many hours per year are lost to working around those types of problems.  And on top of all of that most filters just drop emails so you can never be sure something was delivered in the first place.  :pissed:


Now that that load is off my shoulders, good luck.   :-D
 

Offline Hattig

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2004, 06:27:36 PM »
SpamCop are actually pretty reasonable for most parts, having had to deal with them due to running forwarding mail servers.

Best bet is to fix the security hole (you aren't running Exchange are you? If you are, you deserve it to be honest. Most spam related problems come from compromised installs of (usually pirated) Exchange server (which until recently had a default install configuration of "open relay"). If you don't know how to maintain a mail server, then many people do think with justification that you shouldn't run one.

A computer is a tool. You don't need training to use a hammer. However a server is an industrial powertool, and you do need training to use industrial grinders, welders, etc.
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2004, 06:35:28 PM »
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I'm sick of playing games with email because some anti-spam fascist dictates how we are allowed to use email.


Erm, all you need to do (if you actually need to set up your own SMTP server) is make sure your SMTP server is set up to only relay depending on your requirements, and test it a few times.  If you're still not 100% confident in your work, then most anti-spamming organisations provide a test mechanism to test your server.  It's not difficult.  With all Windows mailservers I've used, it takes about 10 minutes tops to configure and test.  If that is too difficult or too much time for you, you shouldn't be setting up your own server.

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I hate receiving spam but it takes a few hours per year

What used to be my primary mail domain (legolas.com), on average used to receive about 200 spams a day (and about 100 non-spam).  The problem is a LOT bigger than you think.  I remembering reading that over (way over, but I don't remember the exact figure) 50% of the world's email was junk mail.  How many emails do you think are sent every day?

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Or to when one ISP blocks email from another ISP for an arbitrary reason

This does suck.  As does a recent tactic by virgin.net by blocking all attachments as an anti-virus measure.

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And on top of all of that most filters just drop emails so you can never be sure something was delivered in the first place

Hmm.  Not in my experience.
 

Offline whabangTopic starter

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2004, 07:25:50 PM »
I use 602lan suite.
I had an open account for FTP-ing, so there was basically an open door. Stoopid me, I know. :|
I don't permit relaying; only those with user-accounts can log in.
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Offline macto

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2004, 08:23:07 PM »
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all you need to do [...] is make sure your SMTP server is set up to only relay depending on your requirements


I tried sending via my own SMTP server and couldn't do so from day one.  There are typically two issues: your ISP may filter outgoing SMTP connections (which do not use their SMTP server).  A friend of mine had that problem.  The second problem is being blacklisted from day one.  I forget whether it was SpamCop or some other organisation, but they decided that users of ISPs were not permitted to send mail from their own machines.  While their organisation is not universally used, they were used by two academic institutions where I send the bulk of my email.  This is not an open relay problem.  It is simply a blanket policy of anti-spam facists.

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What used to be my primary mail domain (legolas.com), on average used to receive about 200 spams a day (and about 100 non-spam).  The problem is a LOT bigger than you think.


I am well aware of the problem.  While I do not receive quite that much spam or email (about a quarter of it), I find that it takes less than a second to filter each email manually.  It is simple: look at the subject line, look at the to line.  Does either one look legitimate.  No, then plonk.  Maybe, then plonk (given the spam problem, anyone who doesn't know you and sends you an email with the subject line "hi" is an idiot :-x).  Yes, then I read it.  Zero spams get through.  If I get curious about one of the maybes, then it is done in an email client which doesn't support rich text or HTML and most certainly does not display attachments or load external resources.

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I remembering reading that over (way over, but I don't remember the exact figure) 50% of the world's email was junk mail.  How many emails do you think are sent every day?


I can believe it.  On most days, over 90% of my email is spam.  As for the total number of emails sent that day, I cannot count that high.  ;-)  But I wish to point out that it is an admin problem, and the end user should not pay for the consquences of it.  I'm also of the opinion that poor administration practices are what escalated the problem in the first place.

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This does suck.  As does a recent tactic by virgin.net by blocking all attachments as an anti-virus measure.


Again, a blanket administration policy which amounts to nothing less than censorship.

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And on top of all of that most filters just drop emails so you can never be sure something was delivered in the first place

Hmm.  Not in my experience.


Sorry, those are end user filters and not centrally applied in any respect.  I have had problems with flakey automated filters.
 

Offline Ilwrath

Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2004, 08:45:17 PM »
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But I wish to point out that it is an admin problem, and the end user should not pay for the consquences of it. I'm also of the opinion that poor administration practices are what escalated the problem in the first place.


So... Spam is an admin problem, but when admins band together and form things like SpamCop or ORBL, they become "fascists"?

Just making sure I understand this stance...(?)

Personally, I think the message filtering tools need to be pushed more out to the user (be it through e-mail client, or individual user e-mail server setting preferences, or whatever), so people can choose for themselves what they do/don't recieve...  But, until then, for the most part, SpamCop seems to be working reasonably well.  Certainly better than getting governments involved!

 

Offline whabangTopic starter

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2004, 09:13:47 PM »
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A computer is a tool. You don't need training to use a hammer. However a server is an industrial powertool, and you do need training to use industrial grinders, welders, etc.

Whoah!
All I did was to accidentally give "Anonymous" SMTP-access. I'm not so stupid that I would actually set up a free relay server. :inquisitive:

About SpamCop: Well I have a dynamic IP, so that problem went away by itself. :-)
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Offline weirdami

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mean avatar
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2004, 09:39:51 PM »
@whabang

That's a mean avatar you got there. Poor kitty. :-( Better not let cecelia see that!
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Offline macto

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2004, 09:46:02 PM »
I view external mail filtering as a form of censorship and I strongly oppose censorship.  It is bad when it comes from the government, but it is worse when it is imposed by those outside of the government.  The reason for this is simple: in most cases governments have to legitimise and disclose what they are censoring.  Businesses do not have these restrictions.

So why oppose admins who try to protect their systems from spammers?  Because it is counter productive.  whabang started this thread by commenting that his system was used as an open relay.  Now think about why was his system comprimised?  By blacklisting the spammers original, and presumably legitimate, means of spamming people they forced the problem on to other people.  So now you still have the old problem and you have created a new one.  I also attribute the general lack of quality of spam to the anti-spam fascists because they have forced anyone who markets legitimate products out of the market.  Guess who's left?  People selling drugs, sex, drugs for sex, and so forth.  I very much doubt that we wouldn't have seen much of that crud in the first place if spam didn't earn a bad reputation in the first place.  Just consider how many porno-flyers you see in your snailmail box.  None, I would hope.  And I some how doubt that the profit margins on drugs and sex are lower than those on a head of lettuce.

The reason why I oppose anti-spam fascists (a name I give them for their authoritarian tendancies) more than spammers is because I know how to handle spammers, and virii for that matter.  It is called the delete key, or the 'd' key when I'm using mutt.

Then how do you deal with the problem?  Filtering email at the personal level is one way to do so.  Personally, I prefer to do so manually because I don't believe that artificial intelligence is here today.  While I don't agree with automatic filtering, because of false positives, I certainly find it more acceptable than having something forced upon me by an external agency (may that be for incoming email, or outgoing email).  One thing which cannot be reiterated enough is to protect your email.  While I do have a spam problem, part of the problem comes from an eight year old address (ie. the days before protecting my contact information became evident) and most of the rest is forwarded via a mailing list (which is too important to unsubscribe to).  Does protecting your contact information work?  Looking at some recent spam headers, I would say so.  Except for the old address and the mailing list, the only unsolicited stuff I see are virii.  I have also found protecting this information effective for my telephone.
 

Offline Holley

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Re: mean avatar
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2004, 09:58:53 PM »
The full version of that ad (for the Ford Street Ka) isn't designed for cat lovers in the least, ho hum.

As for spam, there's at least one PC program that lets you filter it at the server end, to your configuration - it'd be nice if that was a standard way of dealing with it, with the resposibility on the user.  That way no admin gets accused of censorship, and people get to set it to their own prefs.
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Offline mikeymike

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2004, 10:08:18 PM »
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I view external mail filtering as a form of censorship and I strongly oppose censorship


Considering that all forums here are moderated, why are you here?
 

Offline weirdami

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Re: {bleep}ING SPAMMERS!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2004, 10:41:29 PM »
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I also attribute the general lack of quality of spam to the anti-spam fascists because they have forced anyone who markets legitimate products out of the market. Guess who's left? People selling drugs, sex, drugs for sex, and so forth.


Legitimate businesses have no need of spam. Quality and reputable businesses spend money on normal forms of advertising (radio, TV, newspaper, etc.). Scrupulous businesses don't scrape email addresses from message boards and the don't attempt to bypass filters with numerical spellings and random words and they don't hijack open relays and they don't use fake headers. Any business you'd want to deal with will email you directly, from their own legitimate email addresses, because they want you to know who they are and how to reach them so they can build a profitable, equitable relationship with you.

The reason children don't get porno adverts in the mail is, of course because it's some kind of illegal, but really because real advertising is based on specific, targetted  demographics. It costs real money to send one person an advertisment, so real businesses invest in research which tells them who is likely to buy their products so they can maximize advertising effectiveness. It makes better economic sense to send your Geritol ads to old people because that's the sort of people who would by Geritol. Email is essentially free, so illegitimate, fly-by-night businesses and scheisters blanket everyone everywhere with every kind of spam, billions a day for no money at all. The tiny percentage spams responded to make it worth while.

It's not anybody's fault that there is spam, but the people spamming.
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