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Author Topic: Shhh! Dark Energy found...  (Read 5025 times)

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Offline blobranaTopic starter

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Shhh! Dark Energy found...
« on: May 14, 2004, 01:15:31 PM »
Hum,
Looks like Nasa has found something about the mysterious force called Dark Energy...
They'll `spill the beans` at 1 p.m. EDT, May 18, in a special press conference (Webb Auditorium, NASA Headquarters).


Seems as if they've found `a powerful and independent method` to probe dark energy using NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory.
http://chandra.harvard.edu/

These results on cosmic acceleration provide clues about the nature of dark energy and the fate of the universe.



Dark Energy is an unidentified `anti gravity` that is stretching the fabric of space-time. All the evidence — since the discovery of the universe’s accelerating expansion — has added up to an unsettling cosmic recipe: 4 percent ordinary matter, 23 percent dark matter, and 73 percent dark energy.

Five billion years ago, dark energy became the dominant force in the universe, expanding space and rendering it ever more difficult for gravity to dominate ordinary matter.

As time goes by, dark energy dilutes the matter in our universe, galaxy clusters should become fewer and farther spaced out.
So if we survey clusters that predate the onset of dark energy, we should find many more than exist today.
 A recent study found significantly fewer — suggesting that matter has continued to gravitationally coalesce over time, that there is four times as much dark matter as previously believed, and that dark energy is nothing more than a fantastic illusion.

But,

Perhaps astronomers don’t fully understand the behaviour of galaxy clusters. Or perhaps that particular survey was not representative of the average number of clusters in the young universe. And it looks like the Chandra space telescope has found evidence...

Either way the new results should be an eye opener...

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Re: Shhh! Dark Energy found...
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2004, 02:38:03 PM »
Every force has a dark side :)
 

Offline Vincent

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Re: Shhh! Dark Energy found...
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2004, 03:06:48 PM »
I remember reading a while back about all this Dark Matter that was supposed to exist, but no one could prove it.  It was looking increasingly unlikely that it didn't exist or if it did it was a much smaller amount than originally thought.  Which in turn would screw up quite a lot of science :-D

Maybe this is the first step to proving that it does exist.

I'll try and dig out that article over the weekend, might've been in an issue of Focue, New Scientist or that other sciency journal Scientific American.

[edit] Wayne - love the avatar :kitty:
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Offline KennyR

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Re: Shhh! Dark Energy found...
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2004, 03:38:48 PM »
Quote
Vincent wrote:
It was looking increasingly unlikely that it didn't exist or if it did it was a much smaller amount than originally thought. Which in turn would screw up quite a lot of science. :-D


It's probably the other way around, that they've screwed up a lot of science in refusing to believe in it. Einstein predicted that the universe was expanding in an equation eighty years ago, but he was so convinced that the universe wasn't expanding he added a constant - the universal constant.

The discovery that the universe was expanding prove that the universal constant was unnecessary and Einstein was right in the first place. That's if it really is, of course - no one's sure yet, still.
 

Offline Vincent

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Re: Shhh! Dark Energy found...
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2004, 04:07:42 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
It's probably the other way around, that they've screwed up a lot of science in refusing to believe in it.

Nope, it was that they thought it did exist, but they couldn't prove it.  It was the first time I'd heard of Dark Matter in a long time, so I kinda remembered the main jist of it :-)
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Offline blobranaTopic starter

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Re: Shhh!
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2004, 10:12:09 PM »
Hum,
i didn`t mean it to be that quiet...

But it was Dark Energy , not Dark Matter, that they think the`ve found...

Er, i`ve made up a wee page just for your amusement here...



[color=CC0000]Warning: [/color][color=6666FF]Page contains explicit science and nerdity[/color]
http://mysite.freeserve.com/blobrana/features/dark.htm


Offline Vincent

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Re: Shhh!
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2004, 01:47:42 PM »
Quote

blobrana wrote:
But it was Dark Energy , not Dark Matter, that they think the`ve found...

Yes, but.....
Quote
cosmic recipe: 4 percent ordinary matter, 23 percent dark matter, and 73 percent dark energy.

That's why I started talking about it :-)
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Offline odin

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Re: Shhh!
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2004, 02:10:18 PM »
Quote

blobrana wrote:
Er, i`ve made up a wee page just for your amusement here...
[color=CC0000]Warning: [/color][color=6666FF]Page contains explicit science and nerdity[/color]
http://mysite.freeserve.com/blobrana/features/dark.htm

Great, now my head hurts :lol:.

Offline blobranaTopic starter

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Re: Sh**!
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2004, 12:08:58 AM »
Hehe,
No need to read that now...

The Horses Mouth

So it looks like (for now) the big-rip is the final outcome...

Offline cecilia

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Re: Sh**!
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2004, 01:41:10 AM »
those animations are cool!

if we are lucky the antimatter guy will touch every polition on the planet and blow them all up. ok, wishful thinking  :-(
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Offline blobranaTopic starter

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Re: SH**T!
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2004, 01:01:46 AM »
 Hum came across this new theory that links neutrino's slight mass to accelerating universe expansion (dark energy)

(the papers not actually released yet )

"Two of the biggest physics breakthroughs during the last decade are the discovery that wispy subatomic particles called neutrinos actually have a small amount of mass and the detection that the expansion of the universe is actually picking up speed.

Three University of Washington physicists (Ann Nelson, David Kaplan, Neal Weiner) are suggesting the two discoveries are integrally linked through one of the strangest features of the universe, dark energy, a linkage they say could be caused by a previously unrecognised subatomic particle they call the "acceleron."

Dark energy was negligible in the early universe, but now it accounts for about 70 percent of the cosmos. Understanding the phenomenon could help to explain why someday, long in the future, the universe will expand so much that no other stars or galaxies will be visible in our night sky, and ultimately it could help scientists discern whether expansion of the universe will go on indefinitely.

In this new theory, neutrinos are influenced by a new force resulting from their interactions with accelerons. Dark energy results as the universe tries to pull neutrinos apart, yielding a tension like that in stretched rubber band. That tension fuels the expansion of the universe.


Neutrinos are created by the trillions in the nuclear furnaces of stars such as our sun. They stream through the universe, and billions pass through all matter, including people, every second. Besides a minuscule mass, they have no electrical charge, which means they interact very little, if at all, with the materials they pass through.

But the interaction between accelerons and other matter is even weaker, which is why those particles have not yet been seen by sophisticated detectors. However, in the new theory, accelerons exhibit a force that can influence neutrinos, a force that can be detected by a variety of neutrino experiments already operating around the world.

"There are many models of dark energy, but the tests are mostly limited to cosmology, in particular measuring the rate of expansion of the universe. Because this involves observing very distant objects, it is very difficult to make such a measurement precisely,".

"This is the only model that gives us some meaningful way to do experiments on earth to find the force that gives rise to dark energy. We can do this using existing neutrino experiments."


The researchers say a neutrino's mass can actually change according to the environment through which it is passing, in the same way the appearance of light changes depending on whether it's travelling through air, water or a prism. That means that neutrino detectors can come up with somewhat different findings depending on where they are and what surrounds them.

But if neutrinos were a component of dark energy, that suggests the existence of a force that would reconcile anomalies among the various experiments. The existence of that force, made up of both neutrinos and accelerons, will continue to fuel the expansion of the universe.

Physicists have pursued evidence that could tell whether the universe will continue to expand indefinitely or come to an abrupt halt and collapse on itself in a so-called "big crunch." While the new theory doesn't prescribe a "big crunch," it does mean that at some point the expansion will stop getting faster.

"In our theory, eventually the neutrinos would get too far apart and become too massive to be influenced by the effect of dark energy any more, so the acceleration of the expansion would have to stop. The universe could continue to expand, but at an ever-decreasing rate."

Offline QuikSanz

Re: SH**T!
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2004, 04:56:44 AM »
@ blobrana,

I had a feeling this was up, see Hawking thread. I need to fully read this.

Chris
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: SH**T!
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2004, 12:07:15 PM »
And how do they propose that a force carrying particle which can only travel at a maximum of the speed of light can bounce around between neutrinos (which are travelling at the speed of light) and still manage to transmit the force? Something sounds 'off'.
 

Offline whabang

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Re: Shhh! Dark Energy found...
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2004, 12:21:11 PM »
This is waaay above the level of the physics I learnt in school! :crazy:
I should have studied to chemistry and physics as I first intended to, but noooo, I chose journalistics and media instead. :-)
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Offline blobranaTopic starter

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Re: SHot!
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2004, 01:41:47 PM »
@ KennyR
i see what you are saying, and that would  generally be correct, er, discounting the fact that its an higgs energy field that they interact with...

But neutrinos have mass, they can't travel at exactly the speed of light;  
[if they didn't have mass, they must travel at the speed of light]


@whabang
And look where it got you,
< on a thread talking about cutting edge physics...>