C128 vs Apple IIc+

[McNorris]

What do you think?

I still mess w/ my IIc+, but a dude might want to trade a C128D for it.

What do you think had better graphics (sound is a given)?

[redrumloa]

I thought this was a complete joke of a question until I saw who was posting it.

McNorris, let me slap you a bit.

/me slaps McNorris

Dude there is no comparison. The Apple IIc+ was pathetic in it's system specs even for it's time. The C=128D is one sweet 8bit system!

-Edit-
The C128 has C64 mode to use all C64 programs.
40 colum screen mode has 320x240 resolution with 16 colors and hardware sprites. I don't remember the Apple II's exact resolutions but it was weaker and it did not have sprites. Night and day. Many well written games and demos pushed the C64 incredibly far and made it alm ost Amiga like! The C128 also had an 80 colum mode which wasn't exploited much for games but has potential. I've seen GFX programs push to to 640x480 and beyond with overscan.

[GreggBz]

How many games actually were written for native C128 mode?
Anything to take advantage of that 2 Mhz?

I am the fourtunate owner of a mint C128, with which I play C64 games and nothing else.. I can say that even in C64 mode the graphics and particularly the sound were better then an Apple IIc.

[angrybrit]

Can someone still get 5¼ diskettes in 2004?

You should try to port Wolf3D or Doom to the C128.

That computer had a nice case. :-o  :-)

[GreggBz]

I have doom for my hp 48gx calculator.
it's surely possible.
actually, the hp 48gx might have more horsepower than a c128.

[angrybrit]

I saw screenshots of Doom on the Intellivision too.  So there might be a chance it could be done. :-)

[blakespot]

The Apple IIc+ is faster - 4MHz 65C02.  

The Commodore had better graphics in general, but the Apple IIc+ is no slouch.  It has double-high-res mode at 140x192 in 16 colors and 560x192 in monochrome.  

Commodore had better sound.

Apple had better business apps, tho the C128 could run CP/M -  but I tihnk a package like AppleWorks outdid what was avail for CP/M for the avg user.

I personally find the Apple II to be more pleasant to work with than the Commodore.






blakespot

[McNorris]

@Blakespot

Your dead on the IIc+ specs. The monochrome double-high-res is Killer, but slow.

Nobody wrote games for it.

@all concerned

Here's the deal.

The IIc+:
4mhz
800K floppy
and I have the ultra-rare 1Meg Ram Board (why he wants it). I also have apple paddles, joystick mouse and I can get files to a Mac and straight to the Apple II via the 800K floppy.

But:
I think the crowd is right as far as games go. C64 was my third computer (1stTRS-80CoCo2w/32K, 2-Vic-20,short lived).
Most C64 games killed the AII games in sound and graphics.

Even though I have a couple of rare items for the AII I suspect my beer nights might be better served by a C128D.

(to those that used them-Those Apple II keyboards I still think are the best. I would use them today if I could)

Is a C128D rare stateside?

Now if I could find somebody to trade me my A600 setup for one I could keep both of the crusty old rigs. Anyone?

--(Waits for another slap from Redrumola)--

[McNorris]

Oh yeah, one more consideration...

How to get disk images or files from a modern computer to a C128D?

[Damion]

The 128D was a cool machine! I'd choose that ANY day over a cruddy 'ol
Apple! ;-)

...and AFAIK they are somewhat rare.

-edit-

How to get disk images or files from a modern computer to a C128D?

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/5540/1541cable.htm

You may want to get a separate external drive, looks like you can copy
files directly from your PC (unless anyone knows of a better way?).

[drHirudo]

The C128 is like 3 computers in one - C64, C128 and CPM box. It also had two processors (not dual working though) - 6510 and Z80 and it's like monster 8 bit machine, but came too late probably. The C128D desktop case is the same one used in the A1000, but in the computer world two 8 bits (or even three in this case aren't equal to one 16 bit). So I still prefer my A1000. Of course the C128 is better than the AppleIIc+ in hardware aspects, but if you look at the software base, you might find yourself more comfortable on the AppleII, except you are a hardcore gamer, who doesn't use the computers for anything else, and love to wait long diskloads (if you haven't installed fastloader). :-P

[Damion]

Hmmm....it also appears that the C128D had some internal improvements
over the standard C128...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_128

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=96

[redrumloa]

Is a C128D rare stateside?

I don't think I'd go so far as to say rare, I'd say more like uncommon. With the internet you can find them ocasionally on eBay where they usually still sell for ~$100 or more in good condition.

The C128D had a 64K VDC(80 column vid chip) where stock flat C128s had 16K. This was a big deal for the few programs made to exploit this chip.

BTW the slap was just a joke. I respect all old school computers, just felt compelled to relive the old rivalry:-P But between the 2 I'd say the C128D is an easy choice, very easy.

[Varthall]

angrybrit wrote:
Can someone still get 5¼ diskettes in 2004?

Yes, but only used ones. New ones are hard to find, especially the single density ones that C64/128s require.

You should try to port Wolf3D or Doom to the C128.

There's already a simple wolfenstein clone for c64.

Varthall

[Varthall]

McNorris wrote:
Oh yeah, one more consideration...

How to get disk images or files from a modern computer to a C128D?

I made a cable for my 1571 drive to attach it to my old Amiga. I read and write files with Easy1541.

Varthall