Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!

[Madgun68]

This can only be achived with a licencing scheme with officially branded hardware. If you think that this will work any other way, you should spend one week in the support department and see for yourself.

Do I get a free plane ticket to your corner of the world if I do?  :-P

[Kronos]

, there is also the PPC cards from Phase5, Elbox and DCE.

Heh

Phase5: Yes those cards exist and will be supported WITHOUT a licence.

ELBOX: 100% vapor and according to Elbox Articia-based.

DCE: ? Do you mean those cards that are identical to the p5s ?
Cos thats all you will ever get from DCE.

The only non-Articia PPC-HW that is available for consumers comes
from Apple, and don't expect them to come crawling for a licence.

[samface]

How little you know, perhaps I should add the planned G3/G4 cards from Matay?

Nevertheless, my point remains; why limit ourselves to the mainstream hardware?

[AmiGR]

It did run on the Teron/AmigaONE boards with the old
Softex (crappy) BIOS. They do not support PPCBoot
though. Only Softex and SmartFirmware.

[samface]

Phase5: Yes those cards exist and will be supported WITHOUT a licence.

No, it doesn't require a hardware manufacturer represant in order to license the hardware. If Hyperion or Amiga Inc. says it's hardware supprted by the AmigaOS4, then it has been granted a license. You see, the license is not a one way street, it works both ways. A license can either be applied for or be granted as an initiative from them directly.

ELBOX: 100% vapor and according to Elbox Articia-based.

Vapor? Unless it's official information from Elbox, that is FUD.

ArticiaS based? I don't know but I'm pretty sure they will have to make a specific SharkPPC HAL in order for the AmigaOS to run on it anyway.

[Kronos]

>How little you know,

Says the one who tried to tell me that the A1-Xe would be based on the
A1-SE and not the TeronPX.......

>perhaps I should add the planned G3/G4 cards from Matay?

Why not Merlancia ? Just about as much realistic ....

>Nevertheless, my point remains; why limit ourselves to the mainstream hardware?

Mainstream ? Wow you got a weird view of that. If ther is any "mainstream"
PPC-HW than it is made by Apple, so much is for sure.

And who said something about limiting ?

It is just a fact that porting the A1-version to another Articia-based board
would be much easier as getting OS4 to run on something non-Articia.

So whre are the options for OS4 ? And no I don't think addons for addons
to ten year old home-comuters are a valid future plan.

Running on legacy free HW, is the main point of OS and MOS, and sofar
OS4 has limited itself to the most inferior option out there.

[Kronos]

No, it doesn't require a hardware manufacturer represant in order to license the hardware

Do you understand the meaning of the word "licence" ?

Noone from P5 signed a contract with AInc.
There is and will be no dongle on those cards.
Copies of OS4 for this will be sold WITHOUT being bundled to the HW.

So yes it will be supported without a licence.

Vapor? Unless it's official information from Elbox, that is FUD.

No until Elbox shows a running (maybe linux) of that card it is VAPOR !!
(just look it up in a dictionary).

Elbox were in Aachen, but all they showed was bunch of mediators.

Oh and do you remember that they claimed that it would be able to
run an A1 version of OS4 unchanged ? Well that is only possible if it is
Articia-based.

[samface]

Kronos wrote:
>How little you know,

Says the one who tried to tell me that the A1-Xe would be based on the
A1-SE and not the TeronPX.......

Huh? I don't even recall discussing that matter with you, Kronos. You don't happen to have an URL for this accusation of yours?

>perhaps I should add the planned G3/G4 cards from Matay?

Why not Merlancia ? Just about as much realistic ....

The issue isn't wether it's realistic or not (I actually agree on this, you know), it's about the *possibilities* we exclude if we turn the AmigaOS into some kind of hardware standard based OS.

>Nevertheless, my point remains; why limit ourselves to the mainstream hardware?

Mainstream ? Wow you got a weird view of that. If ther is any "mainstream"
PPC-HW than it is made by Apple, so much is for sure.

No, Apple's hardware is not mainstream, it's propriety. Since the ArticiaS chipset is what's commonly used among the non-propriety PPC hardware options out there, I'd say it is as close to mainstream you can get without actually beeing it. The whole PPC industry is as far from mainstream as you can get but the ArticiaS chipset based solutions are mainstream if you disregard everything propriety and non-ppc.

And who said something about limiting ?

That is the result of not having this kind of licensing scheme. That is the result of not having all PPC architectures on the same level and practising the "supporting the most common hardware standard" approach.

It is just a fact that porting the A1-version to another Articia-based board
would be much easier as getting OS4 to run on something non-Articia.

Yes, I'm sure MAI technologies would love this kind of reasoning. Now, get back to the "not favoring a specific hardware manufacturer" kind of thinking. You want competition and the freedom of choice, right?

So whre are the options for OS4 ?

What are the options the license has restricted the AmigaOS4 from supporting? Yes, I deliberately didn't answer your question because I think I think this question needs to be answered first.

And no I don't think addons for addons to ten year old home-comuters are a valid future plan.

Neither do I.

Running on legacy free HW, is the main point of OS and MOS, and sofar
OS4 has limited itself to the most inferior option out there.

So, how many more options than the AmigaOS4 users will the MorphOS users have?

@samface


as is their excludeing more then 50% of the 'new' options IE:Pegasos/Barbie..

I understand they plan to have OS4 for PPC accelerators... I'm speaking of the normal A1/Pegasos/Barbie (articiaS) boards that are out...

I dont think hardware companies should have to bend over backward for the privelige of having an OS run on their hardware.... most if not all of these solutions primary OS and intention is not to run AOS/MOS or any alternative... but to run Linux anyway..

No, it doesn't require a hardware manufacturer represant in order to license the hardware. If Hyperion or Amiga Inc. says it's hardware supprted by the AmigaOS4, then it has been granted a license. You see, the license is not a one way street, it works both ways. A license can either be applied for or be granted as an initiative from them directly.

so what your saying is that this 'license' is totally arbitrary and meaningless ?... well its nice you admit that much.

@Rogue

I ask again... if management had decided to have AOS4 be 'retail' would it be very hard to get it to run on the Pegasos/Barbie systems?....or would that hardware somehow not work out?

[Billsey]

I read that article. To me it comes across as someone spouting off because a company they don't own has the temerity to go off in a direction they don't approve of.

Well, if the author wants to take his ball and go home he can be my guest. When the time is right and it makes financial sense for me to do so (it's been a difficult year here, too) I will be purchasing an AmigaONE. The dongle won't interfere with running other OS's unless those other OS's want it to. It is simply there to protect the interests of the IP owners, and against that I cannot and will not argue.

[Rogue]

What Barbie board? Can you actually buy that anywhere? I didn't see this yet.

On the Pegasos, it would probably be easy to reuse larger parts, but I don't know how much different their southbridge is. A CPC7xx based board would mean additional work, since all of the components are different (with the possible exception of the serial ports - big deal).

But since I've never seen any specs on Barbie, I cannot really comment.

[AmiGR]

(OT) I personally want to run both solutions.
I want MorphOS and I'll buy it. I want OS4 and I'll buy
it too. I want a Pegasos and I'll buy it to run MorphOS
and linux. I DON'T want an AmigaONE (for my own reasons, I don't like it as a piece of hardware) and
I will not buy it. I just believe that the licence scheme
Amiga Inc has set will not help the Amiga market.
It will shrink it even more, making matters MUCH
worse. Believe what you want but most people
believe that that's the truth.

[samface]

Kronos wrote:
Do you understand the meaning of the word "licence" ?

In this case:

tr.v. li·censed, li·cens·ing, li·cens·es

1. To give or yield permission to or for.
2. To grant a license to or for; authorize.

If Amiga Inc. says that they are giving the AmigaOS4 users permission to use their product with Phase5 hardware, then that hardware is AmigaOS4 licensed. That does not mean Amiga Inc. decides what Phase5 hardware may be used with, just that their product may be used with it.

Noone from P5 signed a contract with AInc.

That's not required because Amiga Inc. and Hyperion are the ONLY ones deciding what their product may be used with.

There is and will be no dongle on those cards.

Amiga Inc. makes the terms of the licensing scheme and if they want to make an exception, they are free to do so. This does not work as an argument for that it wouldn't be licensed.

Copies of OS4 for this will be sold WITHOUT being bundled to the HW.

Same thing as above.

So yes it will be supported without a licence.

Beeep! Wrong. Thank you for playing. Amiga Inc. are the license holders and may license anything in any way they want. If I for example write an essay and copyright the material, that makes me the copyright owner. If I want it published on the net and have no way of publishing it on my own, I will have to license someone else to do it. By simply giving the essay to someone else and telling him to publish it, I have given that person a license to publish it. No contract, no nothing is required. It may be wise if I don't trust the person but nevertheless, he was licensed the minute I gave that person permission to publish, with or without a contract. That's how licensing works and by this reasoning, I'm telling you that the Phase5 hardware cannot be officially supported and unlicensed at the same time. By officially supporting the hardware, it is licensed. The only way of running the AmigaOS unlicensed is without permission from the license holder.

Vapor? Unless it's official information from Elbox, that is FUD.

No until Elbox shows a running (maybe linux) of that card it is VAPOR !!
(just look it up in a dictionary).

Vapor means nothing. We do NOT know if it doesn't exist, for that we would have to have confirmation from Elbox themselves or we would have to enter their labs and look for ourselves. All YOU know is that you don't know, that is not enough for claiming that it is vapor.

Elbox were in Aachen, but all they showed was bunch of mediators.

Like I said, just because you haven't seen it, that doesn't mean it is non-existant. The same goes for UFO's, God, the Easterbunny, etc. You are per definition spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) because proclaiming doom on something unknown is, period.

Oh and do you remember that they claimed that it would be able to
run an A1 version of OS4 unchanged ? Well that is only possible if it is
Articia-based.

Neither you or I know enough about this issue and really should try focusing on those things we do know.

so samface since you now admit the license is arbitrary what motivation do you think A.inc/etc have in not letting OS4 run on pegasos/barbie ?

[samface]

as is their excludeing more then 50% of the 'new' options IE:Pegasos/Barbie..

No, that is incorrect. No option has been excluded what so ever. Name any hardware solution that has been excluded.

[WarPiper]

there is too much crap going on about amiga OS4, why not just waite and see IF it comes out, then judge it and wine all you want about it.

trust me, I will be sitting back reading all the complaints and maybe a praise here and there to help me make my dicision on waisting (or investing) any more money into the Amiga Cult