HDToolBox

[Tumbleweed]

Hi all,

Whats the difference between the various versions of HDToolbox? I'm running OS3.2.2.1 with KS 47.111. It takes ages 'checking scsi.device address 2 unit 0'. The device is a iomega JAZ 1GB drive. I have the same happen with a 2GB Jaz connected to the external SCSI on my A3000D, also running OS3.2.2.1.

If I run HDToolbox OS3.9 I dont have the same issue. Its asks to select the scsi.device then opens up without issue.

Whats the difference between the versions?

Weed

[Boing-ball]

I believe 3.2 HDToolbox has a full on ID and LUN scan. Have commented on this myself. But never had any of my Jaz or Zip drives hang like that though.

Do you have the devices connected with good termination on both ends?

[Tumbleweed]

@Boing-ball

Ive got two Jaz drives. The first is a 1GB internal and is installed in my 3000T. On the SCSI chain I have a SCSI2SD - v5.2; the JAZ and then a SCSI CD-ROM; on the external SCSI port I have a SCSI CD-RW. The CD-Rom and the CD-RW are both terminated. This drive is the less probematic of the two.

The 2nd JAZ is a 2GB external drive I couldnt it get to work with the 3000T. Took ages to boot. I did manage to install a 2GB disk using HDToolBox (OS3.9 version) with PFSAIO. Problem I had was after partionitiong and then formatting the disk showed as blank after a reboot.

To check the drive was ok I tried to use it with my 3000D. Seemed to work ok last night. I managed to copy my boot drive to a 2 GB disk and thought all ok. This morning the A3000D wouldnt boot at all. Disconncting the JAZ - booted ok. Reconnecting the JAZ without a disk - booted ok. Inserted a disk and no boot.

Thinking it was a problem with the SCSI chain I put the JAZ as the first device; 2nd device is a SCSI2SD; 3rd CD-RW and 4th Iomega 100MB ZIP. The ZIP drive is terminated. With this set-up it has been working but I get write errors. File system is PFS AIO V3.2 (beta).

I do wonder if Ive got bad 2GB disks. I got the drive with four used 2GB disk - possible they are bad disks.

Weed

[PlatformerZ]

I used a 2GB Jaz drive on the SCSI port adapter with my CDTV. I didn't run HDToolbox because I was installing an OS 1.3 system but used HDInstallTools instead. That worked perfectly.

[Boing-ball]

@Boing-ball

Ive got two Jaz drives. The first is a 1GB internal and is installed in my 3000T. On the SCSI chain I have a SCSI2SD - v5.2; the JAZ and then a SCSI CD-ROM; on the external SCSI port I have a SCSI CD-RW. The CD-Rom and the CD-RW are both terminated. This drive is the less probematic of the two.

The 2nd JAZ is a 2GB external drive I couldnt it get to work with the 3000T. Took ages to boot. I did manage to install a 2GB disk using HDToolBox (OS3.9 version) with PFSAIO. Problem I had was after partionitiong and then formatting the disk showed as blank after a reboot.

To check the drive was ok I tried to use it with my 3000D. Seemed to work ok last night. I managed to copy my boot drive to a 2 GB disk and thought all ok. This morning the A3000D wouldnt boot at all. Disconncting the JAZ - booted ok. Reconnecting the JAZ without a disk - booted ok. Inserted a disk and no boot.

Thinking it was a problem with the SCSI chain I put the JAZ as the first device; 2nd device is a SCSI2SD; 3rd CD-RW and 4th Iomega 100MB ZIP. The ZIP drive is terminated. With this set-up it has been working but I get write errors. File system is PFS AIO V3.2 (beta).

I do wonder if Ive got bad 2GB disks. I got the drive with four used 2GB disk - possible they are bad disks.

Weed

Yep. Have had plenty of issues with PFSAIO with Jaz and Zips. I’m finding the version 20.0 BETA that Toni Willen has for download sorted that out. If using 19.2 then recommend making sure that you stick to the basic givens that HDToolbox comes up with. A lot of my issues are with booting on the Jaz and Zip. But if you stick to 512 max transfer with v 19.2 you are good. With BETA 20.0 you can go to 4096. Also dependent on SCSI and what tools you have. Play around with async and sync modes.

[Tumbleweed]

PFSIO v20.0 seems to make a difference. I've spent quite a bit of time playing around with the 2GB drive on the 3000D. THe 3000D has a Z3 Fastlane and plugging a SCSI terminator into it has sorted out the slow booting.

I am still getting write errors though. Whats strange is I can copy upto c400MB without issue then when it gets to around that I get write errors.

I'll play around with maxtransfer etc. Have read elsewhere that the following works well:

FileSystem = PDS\03
Mask = 0x7FFFFFFE
MaxTransfer = 0x1FE00 (to avoid issues)
BlockSize = 512
Buffers = 200

I'll give that a go.

Thnaks for your help.

Weed

[Boing-ball]

PFSIO v20.0 seems to make a difference. I've spent quite a bit of time playing around with the 2GB drive on the 3000D. THe 3000D has a Z3 Fastlane and plugging a SCSI terminator into it has sorted out the slow booting.

I am still getting write errors though. Whats strange is I can copy upto c400MB without issue then when it gets to around that I get write errors.

I'll play around with maxtransfer etc. Have read elsewhere that the following works well:

FileSystem = PDS\03
Mask = 0x7FFFFFFE
MaxTransfer = 0x1FE00 (to avoid issues)
BlockSize = 512
Buffers = 200

I'll give that a go.

Thnaks for your help.

Weed

Yep 1fe00 can help. Also try Buffers = 80. I think I was okay at 100. But anything over and that too was problematic.

[Tumbleweed]

I'm now suspecting dodgy cartridges. I partitioned a 2GB cartridge with 4 partitions. All set to use PDS03. Set max transfer as per my earlier post and buffers set to 80. Took ages to reboot - had error messages along the lines of not being able to access after trying TD64 (or words to that effect).

First partion (350MB) appears as uninitialized (as expected); 2nd partition (350MB) showed as unreadable; and partitions 3 & 4 unitialized. Partitions 3 & 4 I can quick format; Partion 1 it runs into problems and fails; havent tried the 2nd partition.

Weed

[kolla]

Yep 1fe00 can help.

… with IDE.

Also try Buffers = 80. I think I was okay at 100. But anything over and that too was problematic.

How? Why?

[Boing-ball]

… with IDE.

How? Why?

Not always the case. It depends how good your SCSI setup and what you are using.

Ask Toni Willen/Hyperion Why. All I know when using FFS, you are good. Using PFS3 then it can get complicated.

[Boing-ball]

I'm now suspecting dodgy cartridges. I partitioned a 2GB cartridge with 4 partitions. All set to use PDS03. Set max transfer as per my earlier post and buffers set to 80. Took ages to reboot - had error messages along the lines of not being able to access after trying TD64 (or words to that effect).

First partion (350MB) appears as uninitialized (as expected); 2nd partition (350MB) showed as unreadable; and partitions 3 & 4 unitialized. Partitions 3 & 4 I can quick format; Partion 1 it runs into problems and fails; havent tried the 2nd partition.

Weed

Have you tried FFS? I have had numerous issues with PFS3 (Didn’t use PDS3), which would get resolved if I stuck to the defaults of each partition.

I used DOSType 50465303 for PFS3. On both 19.2 and 20.0 BETA.

[kolla]

Not always the case. It depends how good your SCSI setup and what you are using.

What are you talking about here? MaxTransfer or Buffers?
How do you measure the goodness of a SCSI setup? Grades of termination?

Ask Toni Willen/Hyperion Why.

Toni has written about this many times and it's even in the readme and changelogs.... which is why I asked, as you appeared to have some different information.

All I know when using FFS, you are good. Using PFS3 then it can get complicated.

Ah, ok, so you don't really know.

The main difference is that PFS3AIO adjusts its buffers dynamically on its own (up to 600?), while FFS doesn't. The (only?) drawback of buffers is that they eat RAM of course, from what I recall a PFS3AIO buffer is 1024 bytes, while FFS uses 512 bytes. PFS3AIO has mechanisms that try to ensure it doesn't eat up all system RAM, while FFS happily gobble it all away (unless something has changed with v46/v47). If HDToolBox sets Buffers to 30 (default for old hdtoolbox), PFS3AIO will automatically adjust that to 150 already.

Asking Hyperion about anything is a waste of energy.

[kolla]

But if you stick to 512 max transfer with v 19.2 you are good. With BETA 20.0 you can go to 4096.

Block size - you mean block size, not max transfer.

PFS3always used 512 bytes block size, and support for 1k, 2k and 4k is indeed beta feature of v20.

Just make sure that max transfer isn't smaller than block size (so no less than 0x1000 when block size is 4096)

[Boing-ball]

Now calm down Sheldon! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Play nice with others. If you know the answers, then good for you. Direct that energy at helping the OP. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[kolla]

The main difference between HDToolBox in OS 3.9 and HDToolBox in 3.2 is that they are written by entirely different people.

For OS 3.9, Joan Dow did a deep dive and created a new Reaction based HDToolBox and hdwrench.library pretty much from scratch, from what I understand. This HDToolBox supports ASKDEVICE tooltype which lets you pick which device it will use to scan for devices.

For OS 3.1.4 (and 3.2), the sources to Joan Dow's HDToolBox and hdwrench.library was not available and they (Olsen, I presume) went back to the sources of the 3.1 version, partly updating it to similar levels of the OS 3.9 one. But not quite, and certainly not without bugs.

So yes - keeping OS 3.9 HDToolBox and hdwrench.library (and resource.library) can be wise - especially if you have hardware that is slightly different than what's "mainstream".


And avoid HDInstTools.