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AuthorTopic: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!  (Read 4227 times)

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Offline OldAmigan

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2018, 12:30:41 PM »
The full sentence is:

This license allows you to install or operate the AmigaOS only on a computer system that had a version of AmigaOS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system, which was especially prepared for running AmigaOS through the use of a dedicated (flash)rom or similar mechanism or for which a legitimate version of AmigaOS was or is available.

The last part (which may or may not be an addition), allows the purchaser to install 3.1.4 on a wedgie. Also, Amiga Forever comes with licensed ROM's and licensed Amiga operating systems. Where's the problem?

Are problems not just being seen where they don't exist here?
 

Offline Fats

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2018, 12:52:40 PM »
Are problems not just being seen where they don't exist here?

OldAmigan, welcome to the new Amiga world.
Trust me...                                              I know what I\'m doing
 

Offline AdvancedFollower

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2018, 01:17:24 PM »
The full sentence is:

This license allows you to install or operate the AmigaOS only on a computer system that had a version of AmigaOS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system, which was especially prepared for running AmigaOS through the use of a dedicated (flash)rom or similar mechanism or for which a legitimate version of AmigaOS was or is available.

The last part (which may or may not be an addition), allows the purchaser to install 3.1.4 on a wedgie. Also, Amiga Forever comes with licensed ROM's and licensed Amiga operating systems. Where's the problem?

Are problems not just being seen where they don't exist here?

Amiga Forever is not a "computer system", though.
 

Offline Pgovotsos

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2018, 07:51:26 AM »
The full sentence is:

This license allows you to install or operate the AmigaOS only on a computer system that had a version of AmigaOS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system, which was especially prepared for running AmigaOS through the use of a dedicated (flash)rom or similar mechanism or for which a legitimate version of AmigaOS was or is available.

The last part (which may or may not be an addition), allows the purchaser to install 3.1.4 on a wedgie. Also, Amiga Forever comes with licensed ROM's and licensed Amiga operating systems. Where's the problem?

Are problems not just being seen where they don't exist here?

The part saying "through the use of a dedicated (flash)rom or similar mechanism or for which a legitimate version of AmigaOS was or is available." wasn't there when I copied the phrase to my post. It has been subsequently added as far as I can tell.

I don't know if the reason is that Hyperion is seeing the comments in various places, as a result of kolla's complaint, or something else entirely. Regardless it still leaves a lot of ambiguity. Software licenses are such a well explored subject that Hyperion shouldn't have any problems coming up with a comprehensive and precise license but Hyperion hasn't always done things the easiest or best ways :)
 

Offline kolla

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2018, 01:25:36 PM »
Right, I still don't know whether it is considered "legal" to use OS 3.1.4 for the system I bought it for, the Minimig v1.1, and until I have a clear answer, I will certainly not buy more copies.

How about this funny phrase then...
Quote
You are required to select the appropriate "Locale" setting based on the location where you will be operating the AmigaOS.

Really - required? Never mind that the Norwegian locales that comes with OS 3.1.4 are so full of typos, spelling errors and ... danish (I had to look up "Fortryge"), that they barely are "appropriate" at all.
(In the meantime I have made my own locales, without any help from any OS developers or Hyperion, who for whatever crazy reason do not wish to relese .cd and .ct files)
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Offline Minuous

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2018, 04:46:02 PM »
@jj:

No, at least not in most jurisdictions.

I seem to recall OS3.5/3.9 having similar EULAs, I don't think it put anyone off from using them in emulators.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 02:58:12 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline kolla

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2018, 10:41:47 AM »
If anyone has any interest in this, I asked Hyperion directly on their forum, and also mention AmiKit.

http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4142

But what are the odds that there will be straight up answers ...
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Offline kolla

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2018, 10:51:42 AM »
The full sentence is:

This license allows you to install or operate the AmigaOS only on a computer system that had a version of AmigaOS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system, which was especially prepared for running AmigaOS through the use of a dedicated (flash)rom or similar mechanism or for which a legitimate version of AmigaOS was or is available.

Do you read the above as 2 types of systems, or 3 types of systems (do you have an implied "or" or an implied "and" before the "which was especially prepared")?
What is your understanding of "a legitimate version of AmigaOS"? Is a kickstart ROM enough?
What is a "similar mechanism" - is a kickstart file on an SD card a "similar mechanism"?
Does Hyperion consider Cloanto distributions of kickstart/workbench, and licenses of thereof (for example sold with MiST and Minimig), "legitimate"?
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Offline Pgovotsos

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2018, 01:57:39 PM »
The full sentence is:

This license allows you to install or operate the AmigaOS only on a computer system that had a version of AmigaOS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system, which was especially prepared for running AmigaOS through the use of a dedicated (flash)rom or similar mechanism or for which a legitimate version of AmigaOS was or is available.

Do you read the above as 2 types of systems, or 3 types of systems (do you have an implied "or" or an implied "and" before the "which was especially prepared")?
What is your understanding of "a legitimate version of AmigaOS"? Is a kickstart ROM enough?
What is a "similar mechanism" - is a kickstart file on an SD card a "similar mechanism"?
Does Hyperion consider Cloanto distributions of kickstart/workbench, and licenses of thereof (for example sold with MiST and Minimig), "legitimate"?

"And" I'd say. The comma, as used in this statement, indicates that the following is a continuation of the previous part of the sentence. In this case a further clarification of the previous part. So "which" refers back to "AmigaOS".

My understanding is that Kickstart alone does not constitute the AmigaOS. As they say the flash(rom) only prepares the computer to run the AmigaOS.

"Similar method", not being further specified, seems to imply a physical item, not solely digital. An SD card, being a type of flash memory, should fall within the description although since it is technically flash RAM and not ROM it could be argued that it does not. A Kickstart image on a mechanical hard drive may not but on an SSD would. It really depends on the technical meaning of the word "similar" from a legal standpoint. I am not a lawyer nor do I portray one on TV so I don't know enough to answer that :)

For "legitimate" I would have to say that it depends entirely on the terms of the license from Hyperion that the reseller is granted distribution. Without being able to see the license I doubt we could decide. It's probably also going to be subject to the outcome of lawsuits like the ongoing cases between Cloanto and Hyperion. That particular situation, as I understand it, is over several issues - ownership of things and distribution / reselling rights.
 

Offline kolla

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2018, 09:39:40 AM »
Well, this is the license with terms for end users who buy from Hyperion directly, you can read it here:

http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php/where-to-buy/direct-downloads/188-amigaos-314
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Offline Pgovotsos

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2018, 02:46:32 PM »
Well, this is the license with terms for end users who buy from Hyperion directly, you can read it here:

http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php/where-to-buy/direct-downloads/188-amigaos-314

That is definitely different from the version that was there when you posted the link before. Just looking at it without reading it you can see that all of the sections are longer. For the most part it seems that the additions and edits are the inclusion of more legalese and weasel words to make it more vague and favorable to them.

Edit - there are a couple of changes in other sections I noticed. They added that there is no guarantee that the documentation is correct. That's definitely weasel CYA (cover your a$$) words. One addition that I was surprised was not in the previous version is the requirement for mandatory arbitration and no law suits for settling disputes. That has been a fairly exclusion in licenses for a while.

I really hope that anyone who purchased this before the license changes kept a copy of it. The new version is definitely more restrictive for the end user.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 02:58:58 PM by Pgovotsos »
 

Offline kolla

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2018, 03:02:39 PM »
I have the original that came included, and that one I also have included in my complaint to the EC.
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Offline outlawal2

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2018, 07:24:02 PM »
Gee thanks Kolla!  I am sure the Amiga community is soooo thankful for you dredging up crap every opportunity you get.

Myself, I prefer to leave the BS out and simply enjoy a new Amiga product, but hey that is just me.
Please feel free to continue to be the negative influence that you aspire to be!

Troll on!

Offline kolla

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2018, 01:58:38 PM »
@Pgovotsos

I have checked now, the license currently on the web page is _identical_ to the one that came with zip file - apart from a couple of line feeds, diff shows now difference at all. So whatever changes you have seen, must have been your imagination :)

I was curious, because I really couldn't see any difference...
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Offline Pgovotsos

Re: New AmiKit X with AmigaOS 3.1.4 support!
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2018, 06:08:13 PM »
@Pgovotsos

I have checked now, the license currently on the web page is _identical_ to the one that came with zip file - apart from a couple of line feeds, diff shows now difference at all. So whatever changes you have seen, must have been your imagination :)

I was curious, because I really couldn't see any difference...

I was going from my memory of the version posted on their website prior to the cease and desist compared to the one currently up. I did not compare to the archive. I'm pretty sure that the section about requiring a machine that previously had an installation did change since I copied the whole end of the sentence and the currently following words weren't there or I would have copied them as well.

Again though, operating from memory doesn't always work :)