Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: The Os 3.1.4 Thread  (Read 61491 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Thomas Richter

The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« on: September 22, 2018, 02:58:57 PM »
Hi folks,

the purpose of this thread is to exchange information and experiences around AmigaOs 3.1.4. If everything goes well - and it currently looks that it will - the AmigaOs bug fix release will appear in very near future. If you have technical questions around this release, you may try it here - I'll try to look into them from time to time, all hoping that things don't go overboard, and I hope some members of the development and beta-tester team will do so as well.

What could go in here:

- Questions regarding the distribution of 3.1.4
- Exchange of experiences with 3.1.4

Note well: This is not an official support thread, and is not part of a "support system" for 3.1.4. If anyone helps, then just on the basis of availability and good will. We may probably help you to identify one or the other problem, regardless our attempts to avoid them in first place. If, however, you have any official question regarding warranty, support, legal questions... go, ask the official sources. None of them are here. We will also ship a FAQ along with 3.1.4, and it's certainly worth looking there first before coming here. We tried to identify the most obvious questions there, and wrote everything down we could think of.

PS: I kindly ask you to stop any attempt to troll here. Quite seriously, I'm really tired of this after all the work that went into the product, and I believe I also speak for all team members. For that, please go elsewhere.

 
The following users thanked this post: F1Lupo, First Ninja

Offline number6

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2018, 03:29:12 PM »
@Thomas Richter

Just for historical purposes, in case anyone is unaware of past and present discussion:

AmigaOS 3.1.4 beta!

Perhaps it will offer some worthwhile ideas for discussion.

#6
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2018, 03:32:24 PM »
I am also a part of the Team, and of course willing to help too.  :)
 

Offline amigakit

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2018, 08:43:42 PM »
First of all, I would like to congratulate you on your hard work.  I know you have the best of interests for our Classic Amiga community and future.  I would like to thank you for your efforts and enthusiasm for progressing our platform.

One thing that Amiga history has taught us is that when the custodians of the updates to AmigaOS no longer operate in the Amiga market, the branch becomes closed and we need to restart development.  This happened of course with Commodore and then H&P.  The OS3.9 work has been seemingly lost and 3.1.4 has been had to go back to go forward.

Does the 3.1.4 changes I presume all fall under the ownership of Hyperion?  So any work you do for them is automatically assigned copyright to them?
www.AmigaKit.com - Amiga Hardware/Software Dealer

New Products  --   Customer Help & Support -- @amigakit

USA Toll Free Order Tel: 1-888-698-6758
 

Offline number6

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2018, 03:23:49 PM »

Does the 3.1.4 changes I presume all fall under the ownership of Hyperion?  So any work you do for them is automatically assigned copyright to them?

I believe these are questions that Thomas would prefer to be discussed outside of the context of this thread.

Quote
If, however, you have any official question regarding warranty, support, legal questions... go, ask the official sources.

#6
 

Offline boemann

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 03:30:49 PM »
I'm curious about the windows partially outside the screen feature as was reported when news first broke about this 3.1.4 update. Is this feature still going to be released and can you tell just a little bit about this feature.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2018, 04:30:46 PM »
Pulling windows out of screens is a feature of intuition v45 which will be available for all customers of 3.1.4 as an optional component for installation. Unfortunately, it is only optional because it does not work with cybergraphics.

Unfortunately, CGfx depends on compiler-specific register- and memory allocation of the compiled intuitition v40 code beyond our knowledge, and intuition v40 is the only component which was built with the Greenhill compiler. Unfortunately, the compiler is no longer available, and even if it would, we would not know how to integrate it into the built-system, so we cannot reproduce what Cgfx requires.

We reached out to Frank Mariak asking for insight, and offered an internal interface in intuition v45 for CGfx to reproduce (with some assembly stubs potentially) its requirements. Even some first contact was established successfully, this went unfortunately nowhere.

So, at this time, intuition v45 is for native graphics and P96 only, and only as an optional feature. I would have preferred to offer this as a regular part of 3.1.4, but we cannot risk to loose Cgfx customers.

 
The following users thanked this post: Tygre

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2018, 05:29:39 PM »
@number6
Quote
I believe these are questions that Thomas would prefer to be discussed outside of the context of this thread.

Why should we get excited about this if this branch will be equally likely to dry up should Hyperion's money problems end in bankruptcy? OS3.9 is fine for users IMHO and there are a small number of Classic developers still operating that a bug fix may interest so what exactly are we attempting to achieve? AmiKIT is a Workbench replacement, many still use Directory Opus and now Amiga OS 3.1.4 is here!?! Rather than ask us to ask Thomas technical questions Thomas should tell US why this is of interest and what would be the benefit of buying it over and above OS3.9? I'm not trolling, this is a serious question.

From beta thread:
Quote
Lots of bug fixes and:
- Fast File System with native 64-bit support for NSD, TD64 and direct SCSI, long filenames and resizable media support
- CrossDOS with native 64-bit support for NSD, TD64 and direct SCSI support, long filenames and resizable media support, new mfm.device
- Format, DiskCopy and HDToolbox with 64-bit support based on NSD, TD64 and direct SCSI support, plus bug fixes
- C:Mount for large media, direct SCSI support and resizable removable media
- Working soft links for the RAM disk and Fast File System
- Shell tools with long filename support, softlinks and large media support
- Math libraries that reconfigure themselves when an FPU becomes available after loading.
- New DIR command with nicely formatted output
- New Workbench that also copies links
- CPU command with 68060 support
- exec.library that no longer dies on 68060
- SetPatch, without NSDPatch and RomUpdates (not needed anymore)
- Intuition with off-screen window dragging
- aux-handler now completely rewritten in C. No more BCPL code in AmigaOS!
- More bugfixed portions: audio.device, asl.library, Compugraphic fonts, diskfont and fixfonts, icon.library, iffparse.library, Installer, iPrefs, Locale, parallel and serial devices, RAMlib and RAMdrive, rexxsyslib, scsi.device, speak-handler, More, and others
- Added V45 layers.library, V45 execute command, V46 Shell

Great! Lots of work and extra 060 support is a great addition IMHO but does this all actually add up to a better and more complete product compared to OS3.9 or do you just view this a cleaner and future proof (from a technical viewpoint rather than legal obviously) version?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 05:37:40 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline boemann

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2018, 05:44:15 PM »
'I for one have been waiting eagerly for this update ever since it was announced - granted I use 3.1 today so for those of you using non retro versions it may not be such a big thing, but for me it serves as a way to fix bugs while still keeping it as original as possible
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2018, 05:51:43 PM »
Quote
while still keeping it as original as possible

This is the thing I don't understand... OS3.5 and OS3.9 WERE official OS versions. They provide an 'original' Amiga experience. OS3.9 is worth it IMHO just because it has the .LHA Unarchiver program on the Dock out of the box. Commodore were both the Amiga's saviour and its destroyer. We don't owe them anything and in particular we shouldn't feel we are losing out on the retro C= experience by not sticking to the 'grey and blue' C= version of the OS!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 06:09:39 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2018, 06:44:25 PM »
Always nice to see additional development, even if it means more fragmentation.  I'll probably pick and chose from 3.1.4 components (once released) to add to my existing 3.9 systems.  Of course I don't expect anyone to support these hacked together kludges beyond myself.  ;)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2018, 07:18:44 PM »
Always nice to see additional development, even if it means more fragmentation.  I'll probably pick and chose from 3.1.4 components (once released) to add to my existing 3.9 systems.  Of course I don't expect anyone to support these hacked together kludges beyond myself.  ;)

Not really fragmentation. Let me explain:

All 3.1.4 components are way beyond in fixes and features than what 3.9 brought to the table. What 3.1.4 lacks is all those third party applications that 3.9 brought along, like video player, web browser, dock bar, tcp-ip stack, etc.

The core of the Operating System is way better in all aspects than what 3.9 ever was/is.

The best part of this, is that taking some precautions, you can integrate 3.1.4 in a working 3.9 system, and get the best things of both worlds: the best OS core (3.1.4), and the more handy applications some of which came with 3.9.

I have already performed the 3.9 + 3.1.4 integration several times: It requires some work, but it is not voodoo magic by any means.
 
The following users thanked this post: F1Lupo

Offline Dynamic_Computing

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2018, 07:24:48 PM »
I agree with Gulliver - The Amiga OS is fairly simple at its core, so changing some libraries and careful use of the setpatch command should allow anything from 3.14 work perfect with an OS 3.9 install. I personally like OS 3.9 (Except the horribly long boot times), but I certainly will be buying 3.14 when it comes out!
The other benefit of the Amiga OS is that it really easy to back up the entire OS and all partitions, allowing you to play with things and test things, and if they break, just copy the old install right back to the original drive.
I am very excited for the new patch, and I hope it is a success for the group that is working on it.

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2018, 09:45:23 PM »
Why should we get excited about this if this branch will be equally likely to dry up should Hyperion's money problems end in bankruptcy? OS3.9 is fine for users IMHO and there are a small number of Classic developers still operating that a bug fix may interest so what exactly are we attempting to achieve?
Look, I'm not doing a sales pitch here, because I don't have to. My income from this is exactly zero, and it's all for fun. It's a bug fix after all, even though it went a bit overboard. So, there is really nothing revolutionary new here, and I'm not trying to sell you this as something new.

Even if Hyperion goes bankrupt, it surely does not affect the software on your system. It does not make the update worse, even if it is the last update. So, what exactly are you afraid of? That it is the last update? And if so, why would it help not to install it?

AmiKIT is a Workbench replacement, many still use Directory Opus and now Amiga OS 3.1.4 is here!?! Rather than ask us to ask Thomas technical questions Thomas should tell US why this is of interest and what would be the benefit of buying it over and above OS3.9? I'm not trolling, this is a serious question.
3.1.4 is not a workbench replacement. An updated workbench is part of it, yes. But it is an updated operating system. Why this is of interest? How should I know - why do you care about an Amiga? An Amiga is not a "useful" system anyhow. If your main use is to play legacy games, for example, the operating system is irrelevant for you in first place, and you probably run it under 1.3.

I addressed and fixed the bugs I found probably because I'm a little bit perfectionistic, and I like to get the system as good as I possibly can.

I don't know whether this is a "sufficient" explanation for you, but as said, I don't need to sell 3.1.4. to you. It is the way how I wanted to have it, under the constraints we had. I would have also loved to update 3.9, but we couldn't. So it is 3.1.4, not 3.9.4, neither 3.14.

Lots of work and extra 060 support is a great addition IMHO but does this all actually add up to a better and more complete product compared to OS3.9 or do you just view this a cleaner and future proof (from a technical viewpoint rather than legal obviously) version?
Actually, that list is a bit outdated by now in the sense that the list is quite a bit incomplete. Anyhow....

3.1.4 goes into a different direction than 3.9. 3.9 was about new features. 3.1.4 is about bugfixing. Why not a 3.9 bugfix? Because 3.9 is lost in time and space. 3.1.4 is the best we could do.

Is it "future proof"? I beg your pardon. Amiga and "future"... If you want a future proof system, buy a PC or a smartphone. Actually, buy a new one every two years. (-:

 

Offline utri007

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2018, 10:05:24 PM »
Quote
I have already performed the 3.9 + 3.1.4 integration several times: It requires some work, but it is not voodoo magic by any means.

Could you tell more about this? This what I'm going todo, so I'm interested.
ACube Sam 440ep Flex 800mhz, 1gb ram and 240gb hd and OS4.1FE
A1200 Micronic tower, OS3.9, Apollo 060 66mhz, xPert Merlin, Delfina Lite and Micronic Scandy, 500Gb hd, 66mb ram, DVD-burner and WLAN.
A1200 desktop, OS3.9, Blizzard 060 66mhz, 66mb ram, Ide Fix Express with 160Gb HD and WLAN
A500 OS2.1, GVP+HD8 with 4mb ram, 1mb chip ram and 4gb HD
Commodore CDTV KS3.1, 1mb chip, 4mb fast ram and IDE HD