Amiga.org censorship? Or just selling out?

[adolescent]

Today I noticed that several posts with messages relating negatively to the Prometheus PCI card have been removed.  For instance, the "PCI for Genuine 4000T" the original poster asked about opinions regarding the Mediator vs. Prometheus.  A reply that I added stating my personal reasons for choosing the Mediator over the Prometheus was deleted from the thread, amoung others.  I find it disturbing that an advertiser/moderator would stoop to these tactics benefit their personal business.  

[MaDDuck]

dude!
first, RELAX!
second, BREATH!


NOW- send a message to one of the moderators and ask why!

I'm sure there's a good reason why ANYTHING here gets deleted!

[adolescent]

Dude? :-?

Don't worry, I'm breathing.  And, I think I know the reason.  I just don't like it.

[T_Bone]

Let me guess, did Tjaoz post in the thread?  :roll:
I bet I can guess.

[Damion]

Check Wayne's response in that thread, sounds absolutely fair
enough to me.

And hey, it could be worse...at least the moderators are 100%
up front about what they're moderating, it's not like magically
"vanishing" posts are being attributed to "site bugs" or anything.

Although I'm NOT a fan of moderation, it is a necessary evil...
and as long as a reasonable explanation is given...well, you can
always debate THAT. ;-)

[DaveP]

@-D-

Oh they have been.

Plus, it does seem that you haven't been stopped from debating
that.

I mean, its not like vanishing posts are attributed to malevolent
actions by people who just like to see things in a distorted negative
fashion - oh hang on - they are.

As per usual.

If you have a criticism about the way a site is run, you can:

1. Take it up in PM with the moderation staff
2. Post about it on the site in question
3. Make sarcastic remarks on other sites about it.

These days I have respect for those that do (1),
some respect for those that do (2) and no respect for those that do (3).

[Damion]

Hi DaveP,

Sorry, I draw my own personal conclusions about events,
overall in life and also in this community. Unfortunately,
sir, I'm not obligated to clear them by you first.

Plus, it does seem that you haven't been stopped from debating
that.

Pardon? It's also difficult to debate something, the presence
and proof of which "disappears" into the magic hat.

If you have a criticism about the way a site is run, you can:

Hmmm....don't need to be told what I can and can't do, sorry.

These days I have respect for those that do (1),
some respect for those that do (2) and no respect for those that
do (3).

Sir, I neither expect nor require your respect. My decision has
been made, I no longer visit sites which I believe
practice underhanded moderation policies.
 
No loss to either of us, I imagine.

[DaveP]

Sorry, I draw my own personal conclusions about events,
overall in life and also in this community. Unfortunately,
sir, I'm not obligated to clear them by you first.

As do I, fortunately sir I never asked you to.

Pardon? It's also difficult to debate something, the presence
and proof of which "disappears" into the magic hat.

If you care to hand over that "magic hat" then it can be restored. It
also does not stop the discussion, as you saw.

Hmm....don't need to be told what I can and can't do, sorry.

Well heres a pretty thing, I never told you you could NOT do anything. Just
got to love these word twisters.

Sir, I neither expect nor require your respect.

Thats your choice. I am telling you how it is.

 My decision has
been made, I no longer visit sites which I believe
practice underhanded moderation policies.

No loss to either of us, I imagine.

Your decision is irrelevant. However your melodrama is quite
entertaining and not entirely unpredictable.

[Damion]

As do I, fortunately sir I never asked you to.

And...I said you did, where again?

If you care to hand over that "magic hat" then it can be restored.

I don't have a habit of backing up pages, sadly.

It also does not stop the discussion, as you saw.

And...I said it did, where?

Well heres a pretty thing, I never told you you could NOT do anything. Just
got to love these word twisters.

Indeed..

Your decision is irrelevant. However your melodrama is quite
entertaining and not entirely unpredictable.

Ohhhh, I've seen this one before somewhere, I think. Anyhoo,
glad to hear your crystal ball is up to snuff.


Cheers,

-d

[redrumloa]

@adolescent

I find it disturbing that an advertiser/moderator would stoop to these tactics benefit their personal business.

Amiga.org Site Announcements : redumloa resigns as Amiga.org moderator

I have not been a moderator of this site for half a year. You know why? Because I knew absurd accusations like this would come flying.

[mikeymike]

ladies, calm down :-)

Ok, here's the thread I think is in question, but I can't find any comments from Wayne on it:

PCI for genuine 4000T

[redrumloa]

Wayne           Posted 2004/3/9 15:33 Updated 2004/3/9 16:22
Webmaster
Joined: 2002/2/13
From: A little to the right of Hell proper.
Posts: 142
Re: Anachronism Industries buys Prometheus from Matay.

This thread has been cleaned due to several complaints about personal agendas and attacks. Some of the statements expressed in this thread contained legally libellous content for which Amiga.org could be held accountable.

If you don't personally like Matay or the boards or whatever, that's fine, feel free to make your point in a way that you can back up by fact. Personal smear campaigns from competing companies or products are unacceptable here.

[Damion]

@mikeymike

ladies, calm down :-)

LOL, my apologies. (honest) :-)


I beats myself profusely...:whack:

[mikeymike]

Re: Anachronism Industries buys Prometheus from Matay.

Ah!  A completely different thread.

A URL would have been nice ( @ original poster as well as red :-))

This is yet another example where I have to -- yet again -- sit and explain how Xoops works because someone is either too new to the site, or naive enough to confuse the standard moderation of a Website with "censorship".

In the thread in question, user tjoaz made several statements which were not substantial by facts.  This left Amiga.org in the position of being legally accountable.  I received almost a dozen complaints by various site members over his statement.

The particular comment had been physically quoted about a dozen times in responses to it.  That leaves us with two options;

1) Manually moderate and edit about 13 posts or so, which is a pain in the ass as well as pissing everyone off.

2) Remove the original statement in question, which -- without giving us the option -- removes any replies along with the original post.

Normally we choose step 1.  In this case, I took step 2 because I didn't have the time it would take to take step #1.  In no way does this denote "censorship", and I take very great offense to the accusation of "selling out".

Like I said in the other thread, if you don't like Matay or their cards that's one thing but Amiga.org is not the place to come spreading libelous comments because of the fact that you work for the other company (or the guy is your friend, or whatever).

There is a thing called professional ethics.  This is why I stepped down and refrained from posting on the Amiga situation during the time period while I worked for Genesi.  

User tjaoz obviously has an agenda against Matay (the reason is actually irrelevant to us), but he cannot use Amiga.org as the means to launch personal attacks against people or even companies which are not based on fact.

There are few enough companies left in the Amiga community and there was no need for him to try and turn Anacronism's announcement into yet another bad thread which makes the company question why they bother.  I'm looking through all the Web archives right now at old news clips and newsgroup postings from 1997 on.  It's actually very sad to see that almost every week since 1997, some company has left the Amiga community behind or closed it's doors.  The fact that ANY company does ANYTHING in the Amiga community in 2004 is a GOOD thing (whether or not you believe there are negative connotations to their actions).

It's even more depressing to read the historically accurate thread and realize that Amiga Inc really imploded in mid 2001 (14 months into existence) and absolutely zero progress -- with the exception of the release of the Eyetech/MAI board -- has been made in the official "Amiga" arena since about 1997/98.  

I am of course leaving the Pegasos and MorphOS out of this statement because it's not "official" (at least yet -- though it may become so if Bill Buck gets his way).  I'm going to shut up now, because I really feel a Soapbox article coming on.