Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane  (Read 7147 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Georg

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 90
    • Show only replies by Georg
Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #29 from previous page: December 05, 2017, 05:02:22 PM »
I have no clue about this stuff whatsoever, but how do such gnd planes on a pcb look like? Is there always a single gnd "island"/"blob" or can there be multiple isolated islands/blobs on the gnd plane? Such that before installation of pcb component gnd blob #1 and gnd blob #2 are not connected, but after installation of it the blobs are connected.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2017, 06:06:11 PM »
you can say that it is basically a whole copperlayer for ground (- power)
so if you need a - power in your design (ground) you just put a via (hole with a conductive area in it) to fish up the ground where you need it..

in tyhis case, the via (hole) is there. but no layer to connect to.

so ICs get + power  but never -.   and to get something to work you need both + and -
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2017, 06:08:53 PM »
:lol:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Faerytale

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 187
    • Show only replies by Faerytale
Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2017, 06:14:01 PM »
Was it a scam, or was it a good (newbie)try to actually sell working PCB´s?? Important question in the respect of LAW :)

Anyway, probably a couple of guys learned something form this :)
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2017, 06:34:09 PM »
Quote from: Faerytale;833821
Was it a scam, or was it a good (newbie)try to actually sell working PCB´s?? Important question in the respect of LAW :)

Anyway, probably a couple of guys learned something form this :)


it is proof that he cannot do a PCB..  yet less a assembled board.

even less a complete P5 lineup!
 

Offline kreciu

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2017, 06:50:01 PM »
Quote from: Chucky;833822
it is proof that he cannot do a PCB..  yet less a assembled board.

even less a complete P5 lineup!

Assuming that ALL new PCBs are bad is an error. Assuming that ALL future PCBs will be bad also is an error.

You decided to get PCBs and I think you should solve issue with the seller directly (if you can). At this point what I can tell you have bad PCB based on YOUR expertise.
Re-A1200inE/BOX/3.2/AmigaOS3.2/TF1260@66Mhz/256Mb/MediatorTX/R9200SE/SpiderUSB/LAN/SB128/16Gb-CF/DVD-ROM/FDD-HD
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2017, 06:59:12 PM »
Quote from: kreciu;833823
Assuming that ALL new PCBs are bad is an error. Assuming that ALL future PCBs will be bad also is an error.

You decided to get PCBs and I think you should solve issue with the seller directly (if you can). At this point what I can tell you have bad PCB based on YOUR expertise.


By applying simple logic:  2 PCBs was wrong..  I contacted him about that.  IF he would have working PCBs it would be an easy thing to send 2..

and if he wanted be a cheap-ass and refuse. when I presented that video. it would be easy for him to show: looksie. he is wrong..

neither happend...  so basically:  all is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.  and that is also the reason why the empty boards is all we have seen.

My guess is that he doesn't know how to export the files to gerbers.. and the 1260 he had at A32 also have no gnd plane.
 

Offline LoadWB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2901
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by LoadWB
Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2017, 08:16:39 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;833820
:lol:


SlowClap.avi
 

Offline kreciu

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2017, 08:17:34 PM »
I was very happy to hear that new BPPC can be produced again, but now everything looks... as usual :(. Chucky I hope you did not spend to much.
Re-A1200inE/BOX/3.2/AmigaOS3.2/TF1260@66Mhz/256Mb/MediatorTX/R9200SE/SpiderUSB/LAN/SB128/16Gb-CF/DVD-ROM/FDD-HD
 

Offline Rob

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2017, 12:20:37 AM »
Quote from: kreciu;833826
I was very happy to hear that new BPPC can be produced again, but now everything looks... as usual :(. Chucky I hope you did not spend to much.


Are there even ROHS compliant drop replacements for all the parts required to build designs from 2 decades ago.
 

Offline gregthecanuck

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 169
  • Country: ca
    • Show only replies by gregthecanuck
Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2017, 01:33:40 AM »
@rob

NO.  That is what makes the whole thing such a farce.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2017, 01:35:33 AM »
Quote from: gregthecanuck;833830
NO.  That is what makes the whole thing such a farce.

I can't remember the exact details, but wasn't there some way around this if the parts are for "hobby use", or something like that?
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 06:10:14 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;833831
I can't remember the exact details, but wasn't there some way around this if the parts are for "hobby use", or something like that?



well.. then I guess it must be sold as DIY kits.
 

Offline Georg

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 90
    • Show only replies by Georg
Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 08:50:22 AM »
Quote from: Chucky;833819
you can say that it is basically a whole copperlayer for ground (- power)
so if you need a - power in your design (ground) you just put a via (hole with a conductive area in it) to fish up the ground where you need it..


Yes, but the whole copper plane is not filled with copper, or is it (ie. it is not like a solid filled rectangle in a paint program)?

So the copper in the copper plane forms some islands/blobs or maybe better said some kind of trace maze. And I was wondering if on pcbs there is always just one single such trace maze/labyrinth  (where you can get from every possible point in the maze to every other possible point on the maze) or whether there can be multiple ones which are not connected by themselves (no way to get from a point on maze #1 to a point from maze #2 because they are not connected). And it's only the installation of some pcb component which later will causes the mazes to be bridged, so that they end up being connected.

stupid example: if you had a circuit with a lamp and a fuse on the negative side then as long as the circuit is unpopulated then it would look like the ground connection from DC In to lamp ground pin is missing.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2017, 10:50:35 AM »
Quote from: Georg;833841
Yes, but the whole copper plane is not filled with copper, or is it (ie. it is not like a solid filled rectangle in a paint program)?

So the copper in the copper plane forms some islands/blobs or maybe better said some kind of trace maze. And I was wondering if on pcbs there is always just one single such trace maze/labyrinth  (where you can get from every possible point in the maze to every other possible point on the maze) or whether there can be multiple ones which are not connected by themselves (no way to get from a point on maze #1 to a point from maze #2 because they are not connected). And it's only the installation of some pcb component which later will causes the mazes to be bridged, so that they end up being connected.

stupid example: if you had a circuit with a lamp and a fuse on the negative side then as long as the circuit is unpopulated then it would look like the ground connection from DC In to lamp ground pin is missing.


well. more or less it IS a copperplate (with areas missing around vias (holes) that shuld not be connected to ground..   you do not bridge via other components (the lampexample) as then you put a lot of stress on that component.
However in the BPPC example, this is also not the design (bridge needed) as my video show: the old board with all components removed shows perfect groundplane where the new pcb show no signal whatsoever.

What you do in the cad sofrtware is to design a area, and tell it to fill this area totally.   but if a component is placed there (like a hole conneting other layers) then it automatically makes a small area without copper around that hole.

so .  either he simply forgot to send the gerberfile with the groundplane data, or when importting/exporting data between software (to move it to more modern software) this information did not come with it..

OR.  he never connected the vias (holes connecting different planes/layers) to GND, meaning the software simply removed the copper around those holes INSTEAD of actually letting it be there. connecting that pin to ground.


and well. as told. as haven't been able to send 2 new working PCBs or even showiung the world thath there is a GND on new boards. my guess is: THERE IS NONE!  and never was.   as it would not require much to show this.

if he show this in a week or 2.  well then it just shows that he made a new pcb order (propably a small one) based on my information.
 

Offline ChuckyTopic starter

Re: Issues with the BPPC2 and GND Plane
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2017, 09:02:59 PM »
I did a compilation on my web:

http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562

This info needs to be shown so noone does prepayments as the risc if fraud is too big.

IF he does deliver: pay when buying it. not befoore