News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[Chucky]

@psxphill

V2 has limited space for FPU. It might be able to fit a full HardFPU, or it might not. Which is why Soft and HardFPU combo is intresting to provide owners of this version of Vampire this functionality.

isn't it very VERY ironic that you need to add software to get functionality. from the team that say that the 68040/68060 is crap as you need 68040/68060 library to add functionality....

You already know they have a "roadmap", and only change that if someone (like Jari) joins in with their own efforts to contribute directly to the development. If you want them to divert from the "crap" maybe you should divert their attention by contributing something worthwhile, dragging their attention from their original roadmap?

Contribute.. well  people asked for FPU.. I read it in forums.  result was threatening of ban etc as NOONE NEEDED THAT!.
so with that attitude.. you know that they are not interested of input.

same here.. I have issues with lack of mmu etc.  gets reported as OFF TOPIC... meaning:  NOT INTERESTED!


so. I contribute with a cheapass (bad) 060 cpucard for bigbox..  (currentlty working on Rev2.. will not be as cheapasscrap)
and I AM interested of input.. AND help..  doing amigastuff is not a one-man show..  maybe one man does it. but there is always a lot of input to take.

[OlafS3]

I wouldn't code SoftFPU because I think it's a backward step, no offence for the work put into it but you shouldn't need any software patches/shims/etc if the CPU is as compatible as they claim.

If gunnar opened the 68080 source to let other people work on the HardFPU then that would be a different matter. He would fine other people willing to help out. He has put himself in an untenable position because he can't deliver what is needed, but he wants to keep ultimate control over it.

Bad management with a promising product but they don't know what to do with it, seems a perfect fit for Amiga. The curse strikes again.

No Gunnar explained it... the FPGA used up to now is too small to include everything including the full FPU. So now there is the softFPU and some FPU commands might transferred to hardware later but that depends what space is available.

[Niding]

isn't it very VERY ironic that you need to add software to get functionality. from the team that say that the 68040/68060 is crap as you need 68040/68060 library to add functionality....

Does it matter how a functionality is added, as long as it works? If it causes problems, like Britelite is concerned about, then fine. Then its a valid point to raise. But given how the performance has increased in relativly short time, the refusal to accept the functionality is soon approaching pendatic at this point.

Contribute.. well  people asked for FPU.. I read it in forums.  result was threatening of ban etc as NOONE NEEDED THAT!.
so with that attitude.. you know that they are not interested of input.

You know, Jari never demanded or argued about anything when it came to the FPU. He just started coding, and asked for help. Instead of rolling with the "omg, FPU isnt included. USELESS!!". How is that constructive!?
I denfintly would become hostile after a while of such attitude if people offer nothing but insults over the hard work.

same here.. I have issues with lack of mmu etc.  gets reported as OFF TOPIC... meaning:  NOT INTERESTED!

Have you considered doing like Jari? Just start coding, and then ask for help?
Posting negatively about the lack of features (some which has been adressed in 2.7) for pages on forums does not count as contributions. And again, it would defintly piss me off to after months of it.

so. I contribute with a cheapass (bad) 060 cpucard for bigbox..  (currentlty working on Rev2.. will not be as cheapasscrap)
and I AM interested of input.. AND help..  doing amigastuff is not a one-man show..  maybe one man does it. but there is always a lot of input to take.

Good luck with your efforts, and I actually mean that

[Chucky]

Does it matter how a functionality is added, as long as it works? If it causes problems, like Britelite is concerned about, then fine. Then its a valid point to raise. But given how the performance has increased in relativly short time, the refusal to accept the functionality is soon approaching pendatic at this point.

well  they use the argument that the 080 is so much better as 040/060 lib is not needed..  while to add stuff peopoe ask for, they are doing the same (except here it is not a library.. but still software)

Have you considered doing like Jari? Just start coding, and then ask for help?
Posting negatively about the lack of features (some which has been adressed in 2.7) for pages on forums does not count as contributions. And again, it would defintly piss me off to after months of it.

the lack of MMU cannot be done in software.. that is the big issue here.

Good luck with your efforts, and I actually mean that

thanx.

[Niding]

well  they use the argument that the 080 is so much better as 040/060 lib is not needed..  while to add stuff peopoe ask for, they are doing the same (except here it is not a library.. but still software)

Well, given the fact that they have limited space on the V2, the capability of the 080 doesnt come into question, merely the space on the FPGA.
You could argue they have wasted space on new functionality, but thats a fundemental design choice going forward, in addition to an increasing degree of compability.
What remains in that regard will be seen at release of 2.7. And finally 3.0.

If that still doesnt suite you, fine, your own design, Jens, PlasmaB, MikeJ etc could cover those needs.

[Chucky]

Putting in new stuff that would REQUIRE software to be rewritten/recompiled but not stuff that oldf software already support?

and also. ironic enough. not putting in stuff that HELPS developing new software.  it is like.. like.  releasing a new cpuarchitecture for the amiga and not release programmingsoftware with it.. (PPC anyone??

but I guess gunnar had this wet dream of MMX on the Amiga etc. so he completley forgot..  the rest of the worls..  yes.  his design..
but then.  WHY THE HYPE?  especially for stuff that will be "crap" even if they might be good?

well. yes. this IS repeating..

[soviet]

AMMX is kind of cool, you can watch movies on the amiga i have a few converted and look great.

[Niding]

Putting in new stuff that would REQUIRE software to be rewritten/recompiled but not stuff that oldf software already support?

and also. ironic enough. not putting in stuff that HELPS developing new software.  it is like.. like.  releasing a new cpuarchitecture for the amiga and not release programmingsoftware with it.. (PPC anyone??

but I guess gunnar had this wet dream of MMX on the Amiga etc. so he completley forgot..  the rest of the worls..  yes.  his design..
but then.  WHY THE HYPE?  especially for stuff that will be "crap" even if they might be good?

well. yes. this IS repeating..

You dont need to recompile old software unless you want to utilize the full potential of the Vampire for that particular program.
And for the most part, Vampire will accelerate programs, and give the user more memory than has been the mainstream standard beyond relativly few that got into the higher end accelerators on the classic.

Again; you can just use the Vampire as a 1260 accelerator and ignore the "fluff".

[Chucky]

you NEED to recompile to use AMMX etc..  so  if noone needs to recompile that noone needs to implement AMMX!

and no.. I cannot use the vampire as a 68060 accelerator..
it lacks the FPU
it lacks the MMU!

it is a 68EC060. I THOW cpus like that in the bin..   I have some  that I use when I do 040-060 adapters. so I did not do a %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!up sending 5V to the cpu frying it.. (and as it is EC. it is by design broken anyway so)

[Niding]

Ok.

Its been repeatedly pointed to that FPU will be implimented in 2.7.

Your refusal to accept any input tells me you are a waste of time to discuss with.

Im checking out of this thead.

[Chucky]

PARTS of the FPU!  is not the cpu.
aybe if EXACT the same parts as 68060 have..

and.. the vampirepeople have told that you get the vampire for what there is.  there IS no fpu now.. as the version you say.. is closed for team only and we never know if it of some odd reason gets scrapped..

[psxphill]

Ok.

Its been repeatedly pointed to that FPU will be implimented in 2.7.

It was repeatedly pointed out that we don't need and won't be getting a compatible FPU. Then there was a u turn, but the last I heard they were only going to support 64 bit floats, not 80 bit. Again you don't need 80 bit and won't be getting 80 bit etc etc, maybe there has been another u turn but nothing has been released.

Apparently we still don't need and won't be getting a compatible MMU.

Problem is gunnar spends fpga gates on features he wants to do so there aren't enough for the things that we want. To defend this he has essentially created his own cult.

He wants to license it, but he pisses too many people off with his attitude & then plays the victim. So we'll see how that goes.

[TrashyMG]

Problem is gunnar spends fpga gates on features he wants to do so there aren't enough for the things that we want.

Well this is his project, he want to make a modern implementation of a 68000 processor and he is using the Vampire and this shareware core as a development vehicle. I suppose AMD shouldn't have introduced 64-bit processors either by the poor logic that seems to be thrown around in this thread. The bottom line is the Vampire is out there, the Apollo core is being lead by a Processor designer that wants to do new things, yet still strives for full Amiga compatibility. It's work in progress and it aims to be better in the long run.  

So bitch and moan all you want, although I wish you people wouldn't, it's already here. get over it, it's apart of the Amiga community now.

[Chucky]

thing is that he is aprox 20 years too late..

so comparing to AMD and 64bit is poor..  as it was (is) in a time when it is developed... the amiga, 68k series etc died in the 90s..   we who are stupid enoufh to use those machines use it for nostalgic reasons. with 20+ year old software (with most lost sources) that will never be able to use all development anyway.

[TrashyMG]

thing is that he is aprox 20 years too late..

so comparing to AMD and 64bit is poor..  as it was (is) in a time when it is developed... the amiga, 68k series etc died in the 90s..   we who are stupid enoufh to use those machines use it for nostalgic reasons. with 20+ year old software (with most lost sources) that will never be able to use all development anyway.

And yet its still here...

Can you point me to a forum about your projects, so I can relentlessly criticize and dismiss them with little knowledge of what is actually going on like you do here?

[Chucky]

Difference heer is that Gunnar more or less say that his product is thebest, no flaws. it is the ULTIMATE one..

however.  it might be pretty awesome.  but no it is not the ultimate one and when people asks about stuff we had for 20+ years.. the %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm starts.
it is all like a religious sect about a very VERY hyped product.  DO NOT SAY NO TO THE LEADER.

What i have the issue is like the thread:

* Compatible with 68040/68060 while it isn't. it sure looks like it.. but not compatible.

* it is closed..

* They are basically searching for partners.  but any partner should just accept and do not ASK. (as it might be off topic.. etc)

* you say: there is NO MMU! answer is: YES IT IS! but.. closed.. (so.. no MMU!)

and they let vampire V1 users in the cold when v2 was out..  V2 was released  you will get 080, the most compatible cpu,  AGA  and fpu.
then, suddenly. no fpu.  until someone made a sofwareeulation. now parts of it will be there. but not all.  as there is no space suddenly. (as it apparenlty is filled with stuff noone asked for)

all my stuff is open and free, just add it yourself. you do not need to ask.  maybe say what you want to add so we can agree of a method of implementation..  this is closed stuff.  then you really need to take the input

for my stuff.  well. do your changes, do a pullrequest and if it looks ok.. I will accept it.  if you do not accept my deny, do a fork..  done. problem solved

but my stuff sure ISN'T the greatest.. code is messy (as donemostly while drinking beers)  but can be changed by more or less anyone

As told many times: if this was a 68060 compatible solution (and also not a one man show).  damn I would close my eaglewindow on my left screen and redo all with that now..


remeber.. this ALL started as I just told that they should add MMU!  it ALL created this %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm.   DO NOT ASK FOR STUFF!