News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[Chucky]

noone producing?? I see a lot of stuff happning with hardware..

[Chucky]

But sorry. NO  I guess the 080 will be as standard as the PPC..

some few datatypes etc.  some small programs. and MAYBE a few demos.  but that's it

[grond]

but this template does NOT work on vampires..

You are doing it again. I take the freedom to correct your statement: your template does not work on your Vampire having an outdated core.

[Nickman]

But sorry. NO  I guess the 080 will be as standard as the PPC..

some few datatypes etc.  some small programs. and MAYBE a few demos.  but that's it

You do know that you can run 68k software on the Vampire? Unlike the ppc.

[kamelito]

You do know that you can run 68k software on the Vampire? Unlike the ppc.

All system friendly software that follow CBM guidelines run also on PPC with the built in 68k emulator,'it run even faster!
For the rest you've an Amiga emulator.
Kamelito

[wawrzon]

If they really appear on the newest core release, then you should report those issues. And, if you want to make a good job while you are at it, try whether the same problem appears if you run the suspect code on WinUAE with 040-jit setting.

i guess you meant "040-no jit setting". thats how the binary can be properly tested. recompilation on the fly may hide issues. other than that whether you use 040 or 060 setting on uae to my knowledge, its something close to 040 thats being emulated anyway.

[Nickman]

All system friendly software that follow CBM guidelines run also on PPC with the built in 68k emulator,'it run even faster!
For the rest you've an Amiga emulator.
Kamelito

Oh sorry i must have misunderstood chucky.
From his post about a few datatypes and smal programs i thought he was talking about PowerUP or WarpOS on classic AmigaOS.. (Not MorphOS or AmigaOS 4.x)

And with that point of view i cant understand how it compares. My PPC did stay mostly unused on OS3.9 but my Vampire is used for everything and all my 68k programs.

But from your point of view yes they are the same only the Vampire is quicker on 68k code...even faster than native PPC code in many cases

[psxphill]

Does/might the added crap throw off timings and functionalities of current 680x0, or is it cause its an unknown variable as to how a routine will actually run?

The timing is off on purpose, which is forgivable, but you could end up writing code that only runs on the 68080 but fails on the 68060 because of race conditions (and vice versa). This can happen on real cpus as well, but the hostility from 68080 supporters indicates that a lot of people don't care if software only runs on 68080 and not 68060. So don't expect anything to work.

Any software taking advantage of the "added crap" can't run on current 680x0 in any case, again the hostility from 68080 supporters indicates they don't care.

Meanwhile anyone writing software that uses 680x0 features that aren't supported by 68080 gets hostility if they request it.

You can't put the 68080 into a nextcube or 68k mac. That doesn't seem to be something that apollo cares about, it's not really 68040/68060 compatible (next and mac require 68040 and won't work with 68060). They would be even better demos of their core, if only they'd support the FPU and MMU (it has been suggested that peoples requests for it are the reason why it hasn't been worked on, which is kinda weird).

[Niding]

There are hostile/agressive people on any side of any discussion, but that doesnt equate that any given side is overall of that demeanor.

Stereotyping any group based on the loud minority isnt really productive.

[ferrellsl]

@Chucky

Good, grief, would you please shut your pie hole!  You act as if someone is forcing you to buy a Vampire.  If you don't like it and it doesn't suite your needs then don't buy it.  Do us all a favor and buy an 060 card and drive off into the sunset.

@psxphill

It was never part of the Apollo/Vampire's design goals to support a Nextcube or a Mac so why do you even bring up such a ridiculous point?  Next you'll be b@tching that it doesn't support your toaster oven.....

[Chucky]

You are doing it again. I take the freedom to correct your statement: your template does not work on your Vampire having an outdated core.

If I sell a machine. I prep it with that card sp the buyer can poweron and use..  I have got many reports telling "ohjh I have issues after I use my vampire"  so even new cores fails.

might not fail as much. but still fail.

[Chucky]

Oh sorry i must have misunderstood chucky.
From his post about a few datatypes and smal programs i thought he was talking about PowerUP or WarpOS on classic AmigaOS.. (Not MorphOS or AmigaOS 4.x)

And with that point of view i cant understand how it compares. My PPC did stay mostly unused on OS3.9 but my Vampire is used for everything and all my 68k programs.

But from your point of view yes they are the same only the Vampire is quicker on 68k code...even faster than native PPC code in many cases

that is my point.. the bells and whistles of the 080 will be unused as the PPC was unused on most CSPPCs/BPPCs. (I just mine for datatypes and archivers..  not that much)  so the 080 addons as they hype so much will never really be noticed..  if even used.   as you need coders actually DOING the software...

[Chucky]

@Chucky

Good, grief, would you please shut your pie hole!  You act as if someone is forcing you to buy a Vampire.  If you don't like it and it doesn't suite your needs then don't buy it.  Do us all a favor and buy an 060 card and drive off into the

buy.. I got several.  I also got stock of 060 cpus..

guess what I am doing instead?  Developing a new.. opensourced 060 solution..
(takingh next steps from the A3660 I released 2 weeks ago already)


this is that I need to tell that the080 is NOT the future.. we are a lot that doesn't like it.  and actually interesting enough.  those I know who like the 080 is the noncoders. they who often does NOT like 080 are the coders..

so WHO will do the coding if they can't get the programmers on their side?
especially from a team that does NOT listen instead kick and ban?

[Chucky]

So for this thread..  so far I am one of those who would BE a target of the offer..  as I could skip doing the A3660 Rev 2 and do he A3680 instead..

(or call it something different.. but you get the point)

but.. I simply do not dare putting all work into the hands of one person, AND the fact that .. retrocomputing for me is very very static.. and I try to tell what could make me change my mind..

luckly for me.  I have still a quite good source of real 060 cpus  so I will not have the issue.  but yes. they are getting harder to source.. (even if I still buys them in packs of 10)

[Nickman]

that is my point.. the bells and whistles of the 080 will be unused as the PPC was unused on most CSPPCs/BPPCs. (I just mine for datatypes and archivers..  not that much)  so the 080 addons as they hype so much will never really be noticed..  if even used.   as you need coders actually DOING the software...

Hmm still dont get your point. In that case wouldnt a 060 be the same? not much software is tuned for 060 either. Mostly a couple of demos and some datatypes..

You still argue in a way that i think you think the Apollo core is only AMMX and 64bit instructions.. and when not using that it it pointless???

If it runs 040 code faster then a real 68040 or 060 code faster then a 68060 is that so bad?
It has every instruction from the 68k motorola family included in the core. (Except TAS2 and MMU)

[Chucky]

Hmm still dont get your point. In that case wouldnt a 060 be the same? not much software is tuned for 060 either. Mostly a couple of demos and some datatypes..

You still argue in a way that i think you think the Apollo core is only AMMX and 64bit instructions.. and when not using that it it pointless???

If it runs 040 code faster then a real 68040 or 060 code faster then a 68060 is that so bad?
It has every instruction from the 68k motorola family included in the core. (Except TAS2 and MMU)

"couple demos"  there is a LOT of 060 demos..  and for me  that is what I use my Amiga for.... (except coding on DiagROM )

the 080 still lacks FPU!..  when I bought my Vampire I read a promise about AGA and FPU..    what I understand.  we will get AGA and a PARTIAL FPU. as there is no room for the fpu..  (but room for crap.. ie stuff that never will be used.  instead of that real fpu....)

and no mmu..  and programmers needs mmu..

so..  a crippled cpu. that behaves more lika a buggy emulator (NO!  I know FPGA is not emulation..  it BEHAVES like it!)


what do YOU guys use your beloved Amigas for?   be HONEST now..
I would guess:  games, demos and mostly just..  fiddeling with it..
production use?  web?  nah!