News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[Chucky]

HOW can you get this as OFF TOPIC!???

ok I have disagreements with the 080.. but OFF TOPIC??   HOW is it off topic?  please explain?

and yes.. my A3660 project is fully open. yes..  "%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty" card..  absolutley.. but still totaslly open..  just download the files. do the pcb.. do whatever you like with it

[Djole]

So I can fit your card in a500 or a600 ? You are comparing apples and oranges.... Or you are just a bit slow ?

[Chucky]

hehe did not like the Sh.. word..

but I get it.  typical Vampire thing:  if someone say somethingh that you doesn't approve with: MAKE IT SILENT!

actually that scares me..   that is a horrible way of taking input..    that looks like dicatorship..  scary.. REALLY scary..

how to even rely on that?  put your design on that?  I would not dare.. sorry..that is absolutley not how to do it..     you will not get a good product if yo only have "yes-sayers"

[Chucky]

I know my A3660 project is a bad card.  really bad..  but it is my part of giving to the community..   it sure needs improvements for sure.

but I WANT comments..  I know what is bad and what is good.  thing is..  if you want  improvements and can do it youself:  feel free (but do NOT close!)


and if you want people to use your techs:  make no-sayers silent but shuttingh them down is scary..   it is wrong..     this means:  if I want to use your core. but find an issue..  what support will I get?  I might get shutdown?  maybe after putting long time of effort.. maybe even lots of money doing prototypes etc?

dangerous..  please show that this is wrong.  take the input.  do not shut it down..

[Djole]

What input do you have on 060 CPUs ? People get spoiled very fast. They think they should get custom made core and cards just by asking and repeating it on forums. Anyway I am done here, this is starting to get very funny.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

if a bus runs over gunnar or so.   you are in a situation where you are screwed...

One of the companies I work for had their entire online advertising campaign managed by one person.  A $20 mil company and only one person had all the passwords.  Well, imagine how much fun it is to try to recover the passwords for all of your AdWords accounts when the only person who knew them has died?  Hint, it isn't.  :mad:

So yeah, this kind of thing happens.  

[Chucky]

the input.  well it is a STATIC product.  we all know how i works.. it have worked for 20+ years for us..  we have software that runs on it..  and it is the last of the CPUs on the Amiga.   the cpu where MY heart stands at: the demoscene (and well the 68000 of even more retro)..

and for me it is the goal..  it is what I want and need.   and what the most of my fellow amiga-demosceners want..  and EXACT that product..
no ammx, no 64 bit, no hyperthreading...   but yes it IS right  sourcing the 060s is getting harder.  we NEED a fpga replacement.   but sorry. many does not need quake and doom or videos.  we need a fpga replacement that still runs like our beloved 060.

and this is what I try to tell you: I am not alone with this..

the 080 is a core under development..  currentlty for us without any fpu and without any usable MMU.. so if you silent no-sayers that want stuff..  HOW would I trust the development?  WHY put in money in developing it if I might get silent what I have an opinion?       I might end in an unfinished product as I got shutdown maybe? maybe spending lots of money in prototyping?

this is a big tip for you: if you seek partners (as thsi thread actually IS about) do not shut down people with opinions or ideas..  that is bad marketing.

[Chucky]

Many companies I work with have put their production into systems where only one or 2 persons know about the system:   cancer. and BAM!  no support.. no nothing..   just a dead product..

thats the hard fact of life..   noone wants it.. but it can happen.  and it have impact.

[psxphill]

They have their plan and they work on it, accept it or dont.

If they were honest about it then this thread would be dead.

[Wolfe]

This thread is dead.  The Vampire is still a work in progress, is it not?

[IanP]

It amazes me that people can devote so much time and energy to be negative about a product that claim they have no interest in ("yesterdays newspaper"). If it is not for you, fine state that if you feel the need and move on, don't hang around posting continuous negativity like a bad smell. I'm sure you have better things to be getting on with.

For the record I'm not in favour of the proposal as I see it as a backwards step. If hardware devs want to licence the full Apollo core and provide a full SAGA capable expansion then great. I don't like the idea of cut down and throttled Apollo 68080 boards (at least not for the Amiga).

[psxphill]

It amazes me that people can devote so much time and energy to be negative about a product that claim they have no interest in ("yesterdays newspaper"). If it is not for you, fine state that if you feel the need and move on, don't hang around posting continuous negativity like a bad smell. I'm sure you have better things to be getting on with.

For the record I'm not in favour of the proposal as I see it as a backwards step. If hardware devs want to licence the full Apollo core and provide a full SAGA capable expansion then great. I don't like the idea of cut down and throttled Apollo 68080 boards (at least not for the Amiga).

Your post is a bit of a mixed message, I hope the apollo gestapo are kinder to you.

[gregthecanuck]

Hey Chucky -

Having fun in this thread?  

I think your A3660 board is a great idea for upgrading A3640s. I may look into that some time next year (I have an 060 and an A3640 kicking around).

As for the Vampire/Apollo core... This isn't your thing now. Sure, I get that. Let's see how the FPU issues resolve in V2.7 and also the debugging tools that will take advantage of the internal MPU.

I think that in the next few months there should be better answers to the issues you are highlighting. In addition there will be more end-user experience out there.

Cheers!

[grond]

For me. incompabilities started from the beginning..  ... And I brought it to the datastorm demoparty..  we checked it out.  and  "ok this is for checking sysinfo and doom" meehh  lets have some beers instead..

and there it is.  since that I haven't tried my Vampire..

So you are basing your opinion on old information. Did it ever occur to you that the core is a work-in-progress and that many of your compatibility problems may have been already solved?  I do understand that a work-in-progress may not be an attractive alternative for many NOW (especially for people who'd invest time and money into developing some new hardware based on this work-in-progress). Yes, so just wait some more but don't dismiss this prematurely and based on past experience.  Let me add another point: it is fine that you and your demoscener pals all have 060 accelerators. Congratulations on forming part of the Amiga elite. However, many people don't have one and there are not enough 060s left to satisfy all the market demand for fast Amiga accelerators. The only option for them is to buy a new 020 or 030 based accelerator (usually without an FPU and MMU), spend a ridiculous amount of money for an aging accelerator card or buy an 080-based accelerator. Anyone can make their choice for themselves. Any new option should be welcomed and even if it is only some ARM core dedicated to running UAE-jit 68k emulation.

[Chucky]

well  I still see people having that same issues that I had.  so those incompabilities is not solved yet.   and I constantly hear that it is "MORE COMPATIBLE" when it doesn't behave like any 68k.  so how can it be more compatible?

for me Compatible = Behaves like THAT product..  

Anyway. I will someday finish my blog-post of this..

Amnyway. you are right. 060 cards is getting insanly expensive.. and I am doing whatever I can to solve that.  but the thing is. the vampirecards are soon approaching that very same pricetag...  yes  professional assembly costs way more than doing it by hand (damn I am impressed how Majsta and kipper had the energy doing it!)    but I got the feeling they soon get to that EXACT pricetag.  except that the difference is: vampire and 080 does not depend on old hard-to-get (read: expensive) technlogy..

Anyway my point is still:  IF they want people to use their core.  DO listen to more people.  I see often in different forums (here in Sweden and IRC etc etc) that people want FPU and MMU or they are not interested.

but when people say that. they take it personal like if you call them stupid..  WE DO NOT!  damn the Vampire and 080 is actually damn awesome..  too sad that there are many wanting "just" the old toaster, but we want it preserved as tech fail, cpus are getting harder to get etc.  no MMU as a good example is giving coders the finger.  and all new stuff they want to impleent means: new software needed.  do NOT give the coders the finger.  you need them.   listen to input.  do not block the people with requests...  I am very often to demoparties etc. I talk to coders etc  and I still have to fine ONE democoder remotly interested in doing something.  as it breaks the bonderys of why they even care about the amiga.    they  just stopped even caring about comenting it as if you do.  things like this thread happens.

the GESTURE of the core "for free" is nice.  very nice.  but in this thread (and others I have read about this subject)  you get an impression that this is more or less one-man-mission of how to do it and everyone else is wrong nd they just want to silence anyone with an opinion.

At a1k I notice comments about FPU and MMU.  there IS demand.  and so far we users.. do NOT have FPU  and Gunnar really showed that he is NOT interested in implementing a MMU (or.-. MPU!) compatible to older software as his is SOO much better.  and it might be right..  still people asks for it. WANTING to do new software.  still "no.  my stuff is much better"

[Chucky]

ANYWAY!  I will stop here..

I will do my part.   I got mail etc asking if I am interested of this deal for my 3660 project and.  well   (tipping me of it.. )  and.  NO.

if you can solder: you can do a 060 for your bigbox Amiga for aprox 190eur. not the fastest.  actuallyt the slowest..   but it works-  and stuff is happening.

I know that I need to add memory (and a ROM disabling that damn FPU at boot), remove old components and replace with CLPD etc.   and I am NOT negative as ths "competes" with the 3660.  actually I would glad if I just could sit down and relax if someone else did it, but thinking like that: nothing happens.

This thread just proved what I suspected. but I do wish them good luck.