What would it take to be able to boot from >4BG devices

[wiser3]

As time goes on the desire to boot our Amiga's from devices larger then 4GB's becomes more and more desirable. Yes, we can boot from a small device, then using an alternate file system use a larger device. But i'd like to boot from a large device.

What would it take to boot from >4GB devices? If i understand how things work it's a matter of putting an appropriate file system, ie. PFS3, on the ROM chip. What would it take/cost to make such a ROM chip?

As detailed in the links below different ROM chips would be needed for different models.
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-127
http://wiki.classicamiga.com/Kickstart_Roms_Explained

Are there other ways to accomplish this? For example, could the Vampire boards support booting from devices >4GB?

[guest11527]

What would it take to boot from >4GB devices? If i understand how things work it's a matter of putting an appropriate file system, ie. PFS3, on the ROM chip. What would it take/cost to make such a ROM chip?

There are two major problems: First, concerning the software, it requires publication of an updated FFS that supports TD64, NSD and direct SCSI transfer. So this has to be clarified with the rights holders.

Second, it requires access to the corresponding chips. I afraid the model that would fit into the A2000 and A500 is hard to get these days, but one could instead offer an adapter so that more common types can fit.

[SACC-guy]

BTW, is this true from amigaworld dot net
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Kickstart 3.X builds on the original Kickstart 3.1 ROM components and features the following improvements:

    Patches originally released under the ESCOM and Gateway Amiga ownership - no SetPatch or reboot required

    scsi.device and exec.library updates by Alexander Benedictov, Chris Hodges, Heinz Wrobel and Toni Wilen

    expansion.library fixes by Jeff Weeks

    FastFileSystem fixes by Etienne Vogt

    mathieeesingbas.library fixes by Harry "Piru" Sintonen

    The scsi.device updates included in the 3.X ROM make it possible to boot from disks larger than 4 GB. Additional elements, such as FastFileSystem 45.9 and Installer 44.10, are included in the [Cloanto] Classic Support Workbench 3.1 distribution, and complement the ROM-based enhancements (see below).



In a careful balance of preservation, restoration and innovation, fixes and features of [Cloanto's] Workbench 3.1 include:

    Dates were preserved, while file attributes and comments were restored (relative to the distribution by ESCOM, Village Tronic and Vesalia Computer)

    Updated C/Version command (Y2K patch)

    Addition of Libs/workbench.library (for A4000T 3.1 ROMs and 3.X ROMs)

    Updated S/Startup-Sequence (conditional SetPatch, for 3.X ROMs)

    Updated Installer 44.10 and FastFileSystem 45.9 (to support larger disks)

    Installer itself is now part of the system installation (inside the Utilities directory)



You use these Cloanto-versions of the Kickstart and Workbench in pair to get the cleanest possible setup, created by acknowledged preservation enthusiasts, where even things like having the correct date stamps on files are details that matters. No hack'n patch, no reboots, no hazzle, no problems whatsoever. Just power your computer on, and things like large disk support is just there! It's the ideal situation!
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[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Do you really need a Workbench partition larger than 4GB?  IMHO just create your Workbench partition under 500MB or so to retain compatibility with older software. Then make your other partitions as large as you like (assuming the appropriate controller, file system, etc.).

[Thomas]

If i understand how things work it's a matter of putting an appropriate file system, ie. PFS3, on the ROM chip.

No, that's not true. The file system can be stored in the RDB area of the harddisk, so it can easily be upgraded without hardware change.

The major issue is the device driver (for example scsi.device). It is in ROM and needs to be replaced.

Even worse, the only driver which is in Kickstart is the driver for the IDE or SCSI controllers on the mainboard. Every other controller has its own driver in its own ROM. So changing the Kickstart ROM has no effect on third-party controllers.

OTOH if you have a HDD controller which already supports large harddrives, you don't need to change anything. For example if you have an accelerator from Phase5 with SCSI controller, you can install PFS3 on HDD and create boot partitions of any size and location.

There is no easy answer to your thread title. There is a different solution for each HDD controller and for some controllers there is no solution at all.

[fishy_fiz]

Just to clarify, you can boot from any sized device, its just the boot partition that needs to be in the 1st 4 Gig.

[kirk_m]

No, that's not true. The file system can be stored in the RDB area of the harddisk, so it can easily be upgraded without hardware change.

Thomas,

Can you explain what storing it in the RDB means?  I know what the RDB is, but, how do you store the filesystem there?  I have heard this said many times, "install the FS on the RDB," but, I had, I guess, always assumed that when partitioning the drive, it was doing as such.  Please give instruction on how to do this on both 3.1 and 3.9.

Thank you very much,

Kirk

[Thomas]

Can you explain what storing it in the RDB means?

In HDToolbox, click on Partition Drive, then on Add/Update (in 3.1 HDToolbox you have to activate the "advanced options" checkbox for the Add/Update button to appear).

Then you see a list of file systems in the RDB of this disk. Here you can remove, add new or update existing ones. When you add one you have to enter an identifier (a.k.a. DosType). Do not leave the default, use the one mentioned in the installation instructions of the respective file system.

For more details read the manual of PFS3.

I had, I guess, always assumed that when partitioning the drive, it was doing as such.

HDToolbox automatically adds FastFileSystem to the disk. If you want to install a third-party file system like PFS3 or SFS, you always have to go through the manual process.

Just to clarify, you can boot from any sized device, its just the boot partition that needs to be in the 1st 4 Gig.

Yes, that's right. To be more precise: the boot partition must be accessible by the ROM driver. Once it starts to boot you can load additional/updated drivers from disk.

[kirk_m]

In HDToolbox, click on Partition Drive, then on Add/Update (in 3.1 HDToolbox you have to activate the "advanced options" checkbox for the Add/Update button to appear).

Then you see a list of file systems in the RDB of this disk. Here you can remove, add new or update existing ones. When you add one you have to enter an identifier (a.k.a. DosType). Do not leave the default, use the one mentioned in the installation instructions of the respective file system.

For more details read the manual of PFS3.

HDToolbox automatically adds FastFileSystem to the disk. If you want to install a third-party file system like PFS3 or SFS, you always have to go through the manual process.

Yes, this is usually how I use PFS on a drive.  I go to advance, add new file system type, select that which I want (usually in the L folder, if I remember right, like PFS-handler or similar), and hit OK.  I suppose, then, I am missing the DOSTYPE part?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Yes, this is usually how I use PFS on a drive.  I go to advance, add new file system type, select that which I want (usually in the L folder, if I remember right, like PFS-handler or similar), and hit OK.  I suppose, then, I am missing the DOSTYPE part?

0x50465303 for PFS3-AIO

I've had that stuck to a post-it note in front of my computer for years.  

[DWV]

Can someone answer a stupid question for me?
What do you have on your Amiga that requires a drive larger than 4gb?
Even back in the day, I only had a 512 meg hard drive, and I never ran out of room, but then again I am not a pack rat, I only put programs I actually used on the hard drive, and extraneous files where kept on Syquest disks.

[zipper]

Games, especially on CD. I think I had over 10 GB of games.

[klx300r]

Can someone answer a stupid question for me?
What do you have on your Amiga that requires a drive larger than 4gb?
Even back in the day, I only had a 512 meg hard drive, and I never ran out of room, but then again I am not a pack rat, I only put programs I actually used on the hard drive, and extraneous files where kept on Syquest disks.

my CS-MKIII allows scsi drives >4gb & I've got alot more than that in my A4000 mainly from all my backups and especially my pictures backups as over the years the sizes of pictures have gone from 15kb to 15MB or more per pic so doesn't take long for me to fill up a 4GB HD

[rvo_nl]

Games, especially on CD. I think I had over 10 GB of games.

this. also, emulation. and games that run under emulation. also, demo's. music. things like that. I think I have at least 40Gb in use on my Amiga.

[PPC]

Can someone answer a stupid question for me?
What do you have on your Amiga that requires a drive larger than 4gb?
Even back in the day, I only had a 512 meg hard drive, and I never ran out of room, but then again I am not a pack rat, I only put programs I actually used on the hard drive, and extraneous files where kept on Syquest disks.

Buy a high-end Amiga and you'll find out soon enough

I have a ton of MP3 and MPEG movies on My A600+vamp2 and a whole massive load of WHDload games.
Also later games like payback, big shapeshifter config,ScummVM, a ton of other programs, a very complete workbench and the list goes on and on.
Then you'll discover even a 32GB CF drive is quite limited