To Vampire or not

[SpaceMonkey]

Yes, I do not work for "the team", correctly observed. It is my understanding, as your answer also suggests, that only clear-cut bug reports containing code snippets is what matters. Meaning that if the program failing is proprietary, one would go through disassembling the binaries to find snippets, or what?



Nope, I don't expect much at all - that is rather the point.



Exactly, but we are pretty much stuck with long standing bugs and software mismatches, as well as legal problems and what else.



What I "demand" is:
* a lot more accurate marketing - just look at this...
http://www.apollo-core.com/index.htm?page=features
So we know the FPU is, at best, dysfunctional - what about the rest? Is this page at all trustworthy if one wants to know what is current state? Or does it require wading through forums such as eab and a1k, filtering propaganda and rumours from reality?

* a lot more accurate marketing - "buy it for what it is" we are told, but it can be damn hard to know what it actually is at any given time, since all information and marketing coming from "you guys" (what to call it - it is not a company, and we are told Vampire and Apollo Core are two very different things) is about what it potentially can be (typically in next core releases).

* a lot more accurate marketing - all the people surrounding the project, who do not have the hardware, who have not used it, yet are mighty opinionated about how truly breathtakingly awesome it is, and are allowed to spread this .. truthiness pretty much undisturbed.

* a lot more accurate marketing - are buyers who buy from AmigaKit and other retailers made aware that they are participating in some sort of beta program? How long can one expect the current V500v2+ and V600v2 cards to be supported by Apollo Core?

* modesty and politeness in general. Guess I can now add "leech" to the rather long list of terms used by "you guys" on me.

I was told that only if I could see and use the Vampire myself, I would be convinced.
I was told that I should shut up since I did not even have a Vampire myself.
It was only logical that I should buy Vampire, right? So I did, both of them.
Am I convinced? Not really. Should I still shut up? Apparently. :laughing:

And your point is?

[grond]

Yes, I do not work for "the Team", correctly observed. It is my understanding, as your answer also suggests, that only clear-cut bug reports containing code snippets is what matters. Meaning that if the program failing is proprietary, one would go through disassembling the binaries to find snippets, or what?

What do you think we team-members-without-quotation-marks do?

I'm pretty sure with your interest in unixoid operating systems you are familiar with other projects and how "bug reports" like "it crashes" and "when will feature X be implemented?" are treated there.

[psxphill]

The 080 in the Vampire is derived from the Apollo Core which doesn't mean it is identical to it.

Sounds like you got a weasel lawyer to come up with that one. Using that argument completely destroys any hope that the project could ever produce something that I would want to buy.

It's a shame.

[grond]

Sounds like you got a weasel lawyer to come up with that one. Using that argument completely destroys any hope that the project could ever produce something that I would want to buy.

Well, then please understand that before the Vampire 2 there was a Vampire 1 and that had (as an alternative to the tg68 it came with) another core that was derived from the Apollo Core. Because of space constraints of the tiny FPGA it was single-scalar and only had partial 020 Support (and, of course, no FPU). How does this fit with your approach Apollo Core == Vampire core?

[Iggy]

You are constantly confusing the Apollo Core with the 080 in the Vampire despite the fact that you have been told several times that there is a difference. And yes, you have managed to find a couple of quotes where the two were confused by Gunnar himself. Congratulations.  Again: the Apollo Core does have an FPU. If you are looking for a softcore to license and for some reason don't want to use an ARM, PPC or whatever-softcore, you can ask Gunnar for a quote. And you can have it with ColdFire-compatibility or without. The 080 in the Vampire is derived from the Apollo Core which doesn't mean it is identical to it.

I have never seen that statement anywhere.
Can you verify it? Because frankly that interests me more than Vampire, particularly if they have some Coldfire compatibility (although who knows how they address overlapping instructions).
And, if there were issues with the core's fpu, how reliable is the Apollo core as a stand alone?

[grond]

Because frankly that interests me more than Vampire, particularly if they have some Coldfire compatibility (although who knows how they address overlapping instructions).

 It's likely an either-or option. Perhaps you could ask for a hardware switch. I'd suppose that's just a matter of the license contract and the moneys involved.  

And, if there were issues with the core's fpu, how reliable is the Apollo core as a stand alone?

 I'm not sure I understand. You mean you suspect that the Apollo Core is not as thoroughly debugged as a softcore you would license from ARM Ltd.? That could well be.

[Iggy]

It's likely an either-or option. Perhaps you could ask for a hardware switch. I'd suppose that's just a matter of the license contract and the moneys involved.     I'm not sure I understand. You mean you suspect that the Apollo Core is not as thoroughly debugged as a softcore you would license from ARM Ltd.? That could well be.

Thanks, worth knowing.
Maybe I will get back in touch with Gunnar and discuss this.
There could be some pretty broad applications.

BTW - You don't know which Coldfire family they are targeting, do you (V1, V2, etc.)?

[grond]

BTW - You don't know which Coldfire family they are targeting, do you (V1, V2, etc.)?

Unfortunately not.

[Iggy]

Unfortunately not.

No big deal, its not a primary consideration, and its likely to be Coldfire V1 (as that is available publicly).

How is work progressing on adapting the core to an '020 socket?

[grond]

How is work progressing on adapting the core to an '020 socket?

No such project. The v1200 would not connect onto the processor like the v600 does but to the A1200's expansion port. AFAIK the core is preprared for 32bit access to chipmem/Amiga-bus.

[Iggy]

No such project. The v1200 would not connect onto the processor like the v600 does but to the A1200's expansion port. AFAIK the core is preprared for 32bit access to chipmem/Amiga-bus.

Well, the Amiga bus is essentially based on a 68000 processor, which could limit applications, but the A1200's expansion port ought to be similar to Zorro3 (I'm not that familiar with it).

Any input here guys?

[SpaceMonkey]

For me the vampire V2 is the sole reason a got back in to owing and using an Amiga again. To date i have spend around £650 pimping out my Amiga 600. As a comparison it blows away my A4000 EC30 2+16MB i used to own.

Would I like a 68060 style MMU and FPU damn YES, am I losing sleep over it NO. It works just fine with OS 3.9 running a nice large screen.



I think there should be a Topic called "I hate the Apollo \ Vampire because ....." for some people on this thread.

[Iggy]

...I think there should be a Topic called "I hate the Apollo \ Vampire because ....." for some people on this thread.

As "some people", I get tired of the self justifying BS of various people in different Amiga "camps".
In particular this "I don't care about the floating point unit" crap.

The non-standard fpu is the reason I'm not buying the A1222/Tabor.

And Vampire doesn't interest me without an fpu.
Doesn't mean I "hate" anything, just that I have different requirements than you.

In fact, that thought that this could grow into a replacement for the Amiga itself intrigues me.

Once the A1200 Vampire is released, I'd like to see if it will work in a system with a PCI bus board.

[Kronos]

Well, the Amiga bus is essentially based on a 68000 processor, which could limit applications, but the A1200's expansion port ought to be similar to Zorro3

Zorro1 == A500/1000 sideport == 68000 bus

Zorro2 == Zorro1 + some stuff for autoconfig

Zorro3 == Zorro2 when used with Zorro2 cards but something far more complicated when used with Zorro3 cards

A1200 expansion == 68ec20 bus (24bit address/32bit data)

Simplified for your needs.

[Iggy]

...Simplified for your needs.

Gracias, that helps.
And "simplified"?  It does suit me. :lol:

A1200 expansion=EC'020, eh?

That could work.

[wawrzon]

The non-standard fpu is the reason I'm not buying the A1222/Tabor.

as if it was everybodys interest, what you are buying and what not.