[Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!

[wawrzon]

Why is AROS on Vampire (future standalone or existing one) better thing than AROS on x64 hardware?

What are the advantages?

-Dooz

its like asking in what amiga is better than a current pc.
it isnt better, its just another platform, except that you can run all the amiga software natively. that extends the available propsal enormously.

btw, a bit offtopic, but heres aros running a warpos demo on my 150mhz cyberstormppc:

https://ibb.co/k0Kt3F

[dooz]

its like asking in what amiga is better than a current pc.
it isnt better, its just another platform, except that you can run all the amiga software natively. that extends the available propsal enormously.

btw, a bit offtopic, but heres aros running a warpos demo on my 150mhz cyberstormppc:

https://ibb.co/k0Kt3F

Thanks wawrzon for explanation since I am not very familiar with AROS. More questions I have.....

So in AROS 68k I can run AmigaOS3 68k applications directly without recompile at the same speed like Vampire card that we have today? Also I can use RTG or SAGA chipset like real AGA? Also with improved AGA in the future?

On the other hand what happens when I start AOS3 68k application under AROS x86? I guess it is emulated with 68k software emulator under x86 AROS or application must be recompiled?

Thanks!

-Dooz

[ntromans]

Thanks wawrzon for explanation since I am not very familiar with AROS. More questions I have.....

So in AROS 68k I can run AmigaOS3 68k applications directly without recompile at the same speed like Vampire card that we have today? Also I can use RTG or SAGA chipset like real AGA? Also with improved AGA in the future?

On the other hand what happens when I start AOS3 68k application under AROS x86? I guess it is emulated with 68k software emulator under x86 AROS or application must be recompiled?

Thanks!

-Dooz

Just to expand on warwzon mentioned:

If using AROS on 68k, as warwzon said, you get to use the pool of existing 68k software just 'as is', you get to use your classic Amiga hardware that you know and love, and potentially AROS for this platform can become very polished as it's not a constantly moving taget as is the case with the pc, with fully documented hardware. As I understand it you are able to use either AGA or RTG, and I think I read somewhere thay SAGA drivers are planned to be developed too.

If using AROS on a pc (with the notable caveat of sourcing compatable hardware), you get the pure grunt of a multi-GHz machine (and hopefully in the not too distant future, multi-core support). This means easily watching movies, rapid browing of the internet, detailed 3d gaming (open source titles that have been ported, e.g. Cube) and the option of running natively on netbooks and laptops. However, as you've identified, if you want to use 68k software you do need to run it enulation via Janus (a fork of UAE). There are various integration options that make these look like they are running native, but they do slow down the enulation. I just run an OS3.x workbench on its own screen and launch my 68k applicaitons from there; it only takes 15 s or so to boot and its easy enough to switch between Wanderer and Workbench via left-command M.

Of course, there is no need to choose between the two; just have both. AROS is of course free, presumably you have the Amiga hardware and, again stressing the careful choice of compatable hardware, a pc or laptop for x86 AROS could be picked up pre-loved for as little as £30, or maybe even for free with if your current x86 hardware is compatable. You can set it up to dual-boot too, so you could have it installed alongside Linux or Windows on a machine.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[wawrzon]

So in AROS 68k I can run AmigaOS3 68k applications directly without recompile at the same speed like Vampire card that we have today?

without recompile. aros supports ks1.x-3.x apps. which doesnt mean that just everything will run fine as of today. but this is aimed at. what concerns speed, the os itself isnt as fast as the genuine one yet, but we are getting there. many things like larger png icons are slowing down the experience initially, but running a binary is at the same or close to the same speed as on the original os.

 Also I can use RTG or SAGA chipset like real AGA? Also with improved AGA in the future?

yes.

On the other hand what happens when I start AOS3 68k application under AROS x86? I guess it is emulated with 68k software emulator under x86 AROS or application must be recompiled?
-Dooz

i never attempted that. to be honest i dont know if and how to run 68k binary under aros x86. there have been at least some une implementation ready or underway and i guess distributions provide that. other than that the app needs to be recompiled to run native on the target platform.

[psxphill]

to be honest i dont know if and how to run 68k binary under aros x86.

You have to run them under uae, which would either use kickstart or aros 68k. It's possible to have the 68k windows appear as if they are on the x86 desktop. You can't use 68k libraries in x86 programs etc.

To mix 68k and x86 applications under the same aros instance would require something like the amithlon gcc compiler that generated x86 code that was big endian. I don't think anyone has ever looked at doing that, but for me this would be awesome. Especially with a decent jit that can compile 68k & ppc binaries into x86 (or x64).

[OlafS3]

You have to run them under uae, which would either use kickstart or aros 68k. It's possible to have the 68k windows appear as if they are on the x86 desktop. You can't use 68k libraries in x86 programs etc.

To mix 68k and x86 applications under the same aros instance would require something like the amithlon gcc compiler that generated x86 code that was big endian. I don't think anyone has ever looked at doing that, but for me this would be awesome. Especially with a decent jit that can compile 68k & ppc binaries into x86 (or x64).

there was a project that tried to implement something like Petunia on X86 Aros but failed. I cannot remember name but found it on web. I could try to find it if you are interested, cannot say much how far it got

[OlafS3]

@dooz

as some already explained Aros 68k works on both amiga hardware and UAE using its own kickstarts. You can execute basically any 68k software written and compiled for 3.x as long the needed libs are implemented. You can even add libs or replace existing ones like replacing Zune with MUI 3.8 what I do in my distribution. Of course when using Zune you can also run Aros specific software.

On the other platforms (X86, X64 and ARM) you can only run Aros software compiled for the specific platform. You cannot directly run 68k software in X86 because there is nothing like Petunia but you can use UAE for it.

[kolla]

I guess it would simplify things a lot regarding m68k emulation layer if one built AROS for a big-endian architecture. I had plans to get an ARM board capable of running Linux in big-endian mode, and then build AROS hosted on that, but I never got around to ordering any board. At the time I was looking at the nVidia Jetson TK1.

[Iggy]

I guess it would simplify things a lot regarding m68k emulation layer if one built AROS for a big-endian architecture. I had plans to get an ARM board capable of running Linux in big-endian mode, and then build AROS hosted on that, but I never got around to ordering any board. At the time I was looking at the nVidia Jetson TK1.

PPC possibly?
But then you've kind of got MorphOS.

[Fats]

To mix 68k and x86 applications under the same aros instance would require something like the amithlon gcc compiler that generated x86 code that was big endian. I don't think anyone has ever looked at doing that, but for me this would be awesome.

This has been discussed in the history of AROS. Getting AROS compiled using the amithon gcc should be possible with some (dedicated) development work. This was not used for AROS as we want to have AROS run at maximum native speed when running on the native platforms and thus not use of unnatural endianess or structure packing.

[psxphill]

This was not used for AROS as we want to have AROS run at maximum native speed when running on the native platforms and thus not use of unnatural endianess or structure packing.

I understand why the decision was made, I just think having the option would be more interesting.

In my opinion, an AROS that allows seemless mixing of 68k/ppc/x64 would outweigh the loss of speed on what are insanely fast cpu's. It may also persuade someone to do a x64 accelerator for the Amiga.

[wawrzon]

its simply a matter of interest and contribution. if there were people actually willing to make it happen, one could at least fork aros if not branch it out withing its own source tree. same for support for ppc platforms. whoever wants may step in and update these targets. this thread should be about currently available constructive options and how to help with these.

[Acill]

This thread is great. For someone that knows MorphOS and AmigaOS very well can anyone recommend a distro of AROS that will work (if one even exists) that installs on real Amiga hardware and will let me run Amiga apps? I have a spare A4000 and 1200 I would love to do some testing with once I get home late Friday! I also have a Vampire 500+

[wawrzon]

@Acill
there is olafs distribution (aros vision) but it is very huge (about 1 gb) and includes a lot of contributions, which makes it probably to heavy a starting point for amiga hardware. also it is not up to date, and latest changes have fixed a number of amiga hardware issues ans well as sped up aros on amigas. id advise to start with a4000, except you have 040 or 060 in your a1200.

download amiga-m68k-bootiso here:
http://aros.sourceforge.net/de/nightly1.php
decompress it to a bootable amiga partition.
then you have to do two changes:
edit your s-s adding this line at the beginning of it:

boot/amiga/AROSBootstrap ROM boot/amiga/aros.hunk.gz

it will softkick aros from your amiga rom. optionally you can add p96 driver files in the same line as arosbootstrap to activate your rtg card, like that for instance:

boot/amiga/AROSBootstrap ROM boot/amiga/aros.hunk.gz boot/amiga/PicassoIV.card boot/amiga/CirrusGD5446.chip

the other thing, not necessary but advisable is to delete prefs/env/sys/theme.var to get rid of decoration. it will be too heavy on aga for now due to alphablending and such. it can be turned on again later. ah and disable the window and desktop backgrounds in wanderer prefs, they take ages to load.

ill try to put up together a simple out of the box distribution next days if people are interested, i just dont have any server at hand.

[Fats]

its simply a matter of interest and contribution. if there were people actually willing to make it happen, one could at least fork aros if not branch it out withing its own source tree.

As you say there is no fatwah on somebody working on it. Not even need for fork or branch, just make it a separate cpu, e.g. i386be and x86_64be.

[Iggy]

As you say there is no fatwah on somebody working on it. Not even need for fork or branch, just make it a separate cpu, e.g. i386be and x86_64be.

Sounds like a winner to me, Staf.
If I had the time, I'd try to resurrect the PPC port.
But neither AROS variant was originally focused on 68K applications.

Once up and running, the real work would have to commence.