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Author Topic: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!  (Read 15201 times)

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Offline polyp2000

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Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #59 from previous page: June 01, 2017, 07:53:32 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;826524
a member of apollo team has posted a video of aros running on vampire expanded amiga.
maybe not that much to see but the degree of responsivity and the 68k cpu recognition is probably what was intended to be demonstrated.
https://youtu.be/V83Az5BrTow
config, apparently: V500 in an A2000 + ZorroII PicassoIV (1024x768/16).


That really was a beautiful sight! This is what happens when people cooperate and share ideas. On one hand we have the open source AROS and on the other side the pure joy to follow technology coming out of Team Apollo. This is real progress , this is what all that work was for and the more open we get the more the promise of an exciting future starts to shine. Let us continue to build on these partnerships.

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2017, 10:31:40 AM »
yesterday toni fixed an annoying bug we were tracing for years, that prevented aros to fully boot from some internal amiga ide controllers (a4k, probably a600), which may have also caused some problems to boot it on vampirized hardware. tested it succesfully this night and hope toni commits it soon.. ;)
 

Offline agami

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Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2017, 09:54:46 PM »
This thread could also be titled
[AROS] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! Vampire!
---------------AGA Collection---------------
1) Amiga A4000 040 40MHz, Mediator PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Creative PCI128, Fast Ethernet, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
2) Amiga A1200 040 25MHz, Indivision AGA Mk2 CR, IDEfix, PCMCIA WiFi, slim slot load DVD/CD-RW, OS 3.9 BB2
3) Amiga CD32 + SX1, OS 3.1
 

Offline psxphill

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2017, 10:50:10 AM »
Quote from: wawrzon;826572
yesterday toni fixed an annoying bug we were tracing for years, that prevented aros to fully boot from some internal amiga ide controllers (a4k, probably a600), which may have also caused some problems to boot it on vampirized hardware. tested it succesfully this night and hope toni commits it soon.. ;)

If it's this https://github.com/ezrec/AROS-mirror/commit/7f51cc5dcc9b49e29bdc99b1007a91cd676da10d then

Then the patch only skips reading the alternative status register if you have an IDE doubler. So I would expect it will only affect you if you are using an IDE doubler.

Reading the status register acknowledges an interrupt and you're supposed to write your code so that it only reads it when you're processing interrupts. The alternative status register doesn't acknowledge interrupts, but you can't read it when you are using an IDE doubler. IDE has cs0 and cs1, each has the potential for 8 registers but cs1 only has 2 that aren't commonly used (I think the original scsi.device from commodore doesn't use them). IDE doublers use the amiga cs1 for the second set of drives cs0 & don't give any way of accessing the drives cs1 registers.

I've not found what it actually does if you ask for the alt status and it can't read it. Although if it falls back to reading the actual status, then it would explain the behaviour.

Fortunately in that place the alt status is only used in DEBUG mode for logging, so now it's not being read then it's just logging the wrong value.

This line will potentially cause a problem if you have an IDE doubler and are using irq mode and compile in DEBUG:

 DATAPI(bug("[ATAPI] Status after packet: %lx\n", ata_ReadAltStatus(bus)));

Ideally the code would be changed to avoid needing to read the alternative status register in all circumstances, at least it should only use it for logging and skip the logging when you are using an IDE doubler.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 11:10:17 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2017, 11:08:07 AM »
@psxphill

i cannot judge this, as im not familiar with the lowlevel hardware subjects. in fact tonis patch fixed ide behaviour on two different a4000 models i tried this with (no ide doubles) and didnt negatively affected a1200 (tested).

i passed your comments over to toni. but considering your insight maybe it would be better if you talked to him directly about such matters. you could join in aros dev ml, if only to see whats been posted and eventually comment on it.

the problem booting vampire is still unsolved and vampire related code starts to be poured in. i think it would be valuable to have competent people review and discuss it.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2017, 11:31:23 AM »
Quote from: wawrzon;826623
i cannot judge this, as im not familiar with the lowlevel hardware subjects. in fact tonis patch fixed ide behaviour on two different a4000 models i tried this with (no ide doubles) and didnt negatively affected a1200 (tested).

It's certainly possible that there is a bug so that it always thinks the a4000 cannot access "alt io". I don't believe it's an actual limit on the a4000 because this http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=599 exists.

It may also get it wrong on a600/a1200 or vampire but I can't find that part of the code in the git mirror, so either it's missing from git or the code is generated with some macro fu that makes it hard to search for.

This is when the alt io stuff was originally added.

https://trac.aros.org/trac/changeset/46722/AROS

This is where ide doublers are detected....

https://github.com/michalsc/AROS/blob/master/arch/m68k-amiga/hidd/gayle_ata/probe.c

and then this is where they are used

https://github.com/ezrec/AROS-mirror/blob/148fa41943c6090ddc3a82efa2259a43ce23faea/AROS/arch/m68k-amiga/devs/ata/ata_amiga.c

But I haven't figured out how that builds a ATA_BusInterface yet.

FWIW it looks like whoever wrote https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Developer/Docs/Devices/ATA knew about the issues too.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 11:52:56 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2017, 11:51:55 AM »
from toni:
Quote

Do I really need to explain this when it should have been obvious by
actually looking at the code?

AltStatus is by design not used with A600/A1200/A4000 IDE because it is
practically guaranteed there are Gayle/A4000 IDE based IDE designs that
don't implement altstatus (or devcon) at all or have some weird internal
IDE doubler hardware because Commodore A600/A1200/A4000 IDE driver never
used either registers.

altstatus read gets automatically redirected to normal status read if
altio is not set which caused the original problem because this code was
also waiting for interrupt at the same time. It was obvious bug and
obvious fix, driver is designed to support non-AltIO mode but didn't
check it properly here.

Setting it to FF is just not to cause compiler warnings and also set it
to impossible value, anyone who reads the log should also know what it
can mean.


please, dont shoot the messanger;)
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2017, 11:55:45 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;826624

FWIW it looks like whoever wrote https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Aros/Developer/Docs/Devices/ATA knew about the issues too.


must be jason, the other aros68k developer, who is now gone inactive. as you see he didnt get past this point, which is now fixed by toni.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2017, 12:26:53 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;826625
from toni:


please, dont shoot the messanger;)

That explains it. I was starting to come to the conclusion that it never read the alt status on amiga, even though the code in some places was giving the impression that it would. I couldn't track down where it fell back to reading the actual status. Aros is unfortunately not a panacea. You can blame me for being dumb, but
building barriers around source code that mean you can't just follow code easily is a bad idea. It's why I stepped out of AROS development in the first place, I was coincidentally building a custom 68k kickstart but I only had an amiga at home and wrestling with building it with the compilers available was just too much hassle. I made some progress & had "something" that booted, but ultimately I got a Windows laptop (circa 2001) and my Amiga use faded away.

"because it is
practically guaranteed there are Gayle/A4000 IDE based IDE designs that
don't implement altstatus (or devcon) at all"

I disagree with "practically guaranteed", the registers are in the drive & All gayle/a4000 IDE designs support reading the registers or you wouldn't be able to fit a 4 port ide adapter in the first place. It's only the ide doubler that affects it & in your test sample then none of them had one. However I'd argue against using alt status apart from logging and not to read it at all when it's impossible to read it, which in this case is what toni did. However there are still a load of cases where it reads the alt status, some in DEBUG code and some are always read which he hasn't done anything about. Which leaves race conditions waiting to happen. I am perfectly happy to leave him to it.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 12:48:11 PM by psxphill »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2017, 12:56:57 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;826629


"because it is
practically guaranteed there are Gayle/A4000 IDE based IDE designs that
don't implement altstatus (or devcon) at all"

I disagree with "practically guaranteed", the registers are in the drive & All gayle/a4000 IDE designs support reading the registers or you wouldn't be able to fit a 4 port ide adapter in the first place. It's only the ide doubler that affects it & in your test sample then none of them had one. However I'd argue against using alt status apart from logging and not to read it at all when it's impossible to read it, which in this case is what toni did. However there are still a load of cases where it reads the alt status, some in DEBUG code and some are always read which he hasn't done anything about. Which leaves race conditions waiting to happen. I am perfectly happy to leave him to it.


look: discussing it with me doesnt make any sense. you are on eab. if you dont want to register on aros ml, yo might still open a thread there and post your considerations and proposals, toni might or might not comment upon. thats how things may be trated constructive rather than only talking without any consequences.

what concerns c++ classes and stuff, bebbos amiga-m68k gcc6.3.0 patches will probably find their way on aros. toni expressed interest and bebbo has joined the list. he even started experimenting with compiling aros with his compiler but he is now silent for a while, both on eab as on aros ml. hope this will not fall asleep.
 

Offline kolla

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2017, 01:43:32 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;826572
yesterday toni fixed an annoying bug we were tracing for years, that prevented aros to fully boot from some internal amiga ide controllers (a4k, probably a600), which may have also caused some problems to boot it on vampirized hardware. tested it succesfully this night and hope toni commits it soon.. ;)


Excellent - that may also fix the same issue for MIST and Minimig?!

I must test when I get home! :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2017, 01:46:35 PM »
@kolla
im simply not aware of these issues. let alone aros team is. can you get serial log in case it doesnt boot?
 

Offline kolla

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2017, 07:32:45 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;826635
@kolla
im simply not aware of these issues. let alone aros team is. can you get serial log in case it doesnt boot?


I can give it a try when I finally get home... :p

Anyways, it may be faster to just contact Chaos, a developer of the Minimig core for the MiST and also the original Minimig, he is well aware about this problem.

http://somuch.guru/minimig/minimig-mist/#comment-3192

:)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2017, 08:14:37 PM »
Quote from: kolla;826643
I can give it a try when I finally get home... :p

Anyways, it may be faster to just contact Chaos, a developer of the Minimig core for the MiST and also the original Minimig, he is well aware about this problem.

http://somuch.guru/minimig/minimig-mist/#comment-3192

:)


sorry. on the site you linked to i dont see how i can contact him direcly to make him aware. either you supply me with contact details via pm or you might want to contact him yourself. keep in mind its convenient to keep people working on something offloaded rather than forward everything up to them. they are too few. at least thats what im trying to do myself. an effort like that to be succesful needs to be distributed.
 

Offline dooz

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2017, 07:05:06 AM »
Why is AROS on Vampire (future standalone or existing one) better thing than AROS on x64 hardware?

What are the advantages?

-Dooz
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [Vampire] The AMIGA Future Is NOW! AROS!
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2017, 09:10:55 AM »
Quote from: dooz;826653
Why is AROS on Vampire (future standalone or existing one) better thing than AROS on x64 hardware?

What are the advantages?

-Dooz
its like asking in what amiga is better than a current pc.
it isnt better, its just another platform, except that you can run all the amiga software natively. that extends the available propsal enormously.

btw, a bit offtopic, but heres aros running a warpos demo on my 150mhz cyberstormppc:

https://ibb.co/k0Kt3F
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 09:13:57 AM by wawrzon »