Video slot or ZII slot for video card

[curtis]

So, I'm looking at a Retina ZII video card which, obviously, fits in a Zorro II slot and I got to wondering which would be better, the ZII slot or the dedicated video slot on an Amiga 2000?

I'm running an A2000 with a Fusion40, rev 6.2 mobo, OS 3.9 with 2MB chip RAM and 39MB other RAM.

Comments please.

[Motormouth]

The two slots are not really comparable

Zorro II is an expansion slot with all access to system addressing and I/O
and the ability to do DMA bus mastering and autoconfig.

The reason that RTG card used Zorro II (or III) is because they are generating their own video signals

The Video Slot is really design to access the amiga's RGB, digital video signals, clock, and colorburst.  This really great for mixing amiga video with other video sources or for processing video or augmenting amiga video.

ie useful for genlocks, video toaster, flicker fixer.  It is not as useful in the days of ATSC DTV, HDTV etc.

The closest thing to a video card that I can remember for the Video slot was the Opalvision.

[mechy]

So, I'm looking at a Retina ZII video card which, obviously, fits in a Zorro II slot and I got to wondering which would be better, the ZII slot or the dedicated video slot on an Amiga 2000?

I'm running an A2000 with a Fusion40, rev 6.2 mobo, OS 3.9 with 2MB chip RAM and 39MB other RAM.

Comments please.

The Retina ZII is almost worthless as a video card since picasso96 doesn't support it and the only cybergfx drivers were hard to find. the stock drivers with it are another old video standard iirc like egs.. look for a PicassoII or II+ card,much better supported. I think they made new ones on A1k.org? The fpga card mntmn? makes would do also.

 The Picasso IV($$$) could use both zorro2 slot and video slot,the video slot was used for its scandoubler/flicker fixer only. PicassoII etc will not use the video slot as Motormouth says.

[Motormouth]

The Picasso IV($$$) could use both zorro2 slot and video slot,the video slot was used for its scandoubler/flicker fixer only. PicassoII etc will not use the video slot as Motormouth says.

@Mechy respectfully I suggest you reread the post.  I merely stated the differences in the slots ie zorro vs video slot for RTG.  I said that the video slot was not really appropriate for a RTG card.
Actually the only card I mentioned specifically was the Opalvision.  

PS I have owned a picasso II for over 20 years....

[curtis]

Actually, I was wondering what the differences were between a video card designed for the Zorro slots and one designed for the video slot.

@ mechy:  I would love to get my paws on a Picasso, but no one seems to want to part with them!

As far as a1k.org, my German is pretty rusty!

[guest11527]

Actually, I was wondering what the differences were between a video card designed for the Zorro slots and one designed for the video slot.

A card that goes into the video slot is something I would not really call a "graphics card". Such cards take the output of the Amiga custom chips, and buffer them, then output the buffered data at a different (higher) rate. Either by doubling the horizontal frequency to be compatible with VESA, or by even upconverting the frame rate to a higher rate.

In either case, it is stil the Amiga chipset that generates the graphics, with all of its limitations as far as the number of colors or bitplanes are concerned. For ECS, this means at most 16 colors in Hires, or 32 colors in Lores + EHB + HAM.

A graphics card in a Zorro slot bypasses the Amiga chipset in total, generates its own graphics, but also requires patches into the OS to allow programs to access its functions. A video-slot driven flickerfixer or upconverter does not require drivers and also works with bad-style software that hacks the hardware directly, an rtg video card does not.

[Rotzloeffel]

So, I'm looking at a Retina ZII video card which, obviously, fits in a Zorro II slot

This card would be the badest desicition ever ! Don´t buy it!

Buy a NEW Card.... such as the Picasso II-clone

http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=56&osCsid=497da842e80aa2a0491c12b0d089de81

or the mnt VA 2000 with Full HD Support

http://shop.mntmn.com/

[curtis]

Those look nice, but ouch!  They're a little expensive.  Will have to save up for them.

BTW, what's with the "break-off" corner on the kryo card?

This card would be the badest desicition ever ! Don´t buy it!

Buy a NEW Card.... such as the Picasso II-clone

http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=56&osCsid=497da842e80aa2a0491c12b0d089de81

or the mnt VA 2000 with Full HD Support

http://shop.mntmn.com/

[darksun9210]

that break-off thingy corner bit kinda tempts my brain to say that this is to make it zorro1 slot compatible? (A500/A1000 sideslot/car card cage)?
but counting the pins and cut out comes to 12, and 12 off of 100 makes 88. not 86. so ... erm  not so sure then...

I've just read the docs (lol). yeah, it's for the 86pin A500 port. either via slot adapter or hand soldered edge connector.

[Motormouth]

This card would be the badest desicition ever ! Don´t buy it!

Buy a NEW Card.... such as the Picasso II-clone

http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=56&osCsid=497da842e80aa2a0491c12b0d089de81

or the mnt VA 2000 with Full HD Support

http://shop.mntmn.com/

I like the idea of a Picasso II clone, it looks like this uses the Cirrus GD5434
I wonder where Matz got the supply of GD5434s, according to wikipedia it looks like is supports 64 bit memory transfers,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Logic

This would compare to the Cirrus Logic GD5428 what the picasso II+ uses
and the Cirrus Logic GD5426 what the picasso II uses.

The kyroflux website says 25% increase in speed, but in what test.  In real performance probably gives a modest but noticeable speed increase over the picasso II+.
I wonder if anyone has benchmarked it vs. the picasso II and II+ to see for sure.

[guest11527]

I like the idea of a Picasso II clone, it looks like this uses the Cirrus GD5434.

Yes, though it operates in ISA mode on Matze's graphics card. I bought one, and it works just nicely in my A2000.
 

This would compare to the Cirrus Logic GD5428 what the picasso II+ uses
and the Cirrus Logic GD5426 what the picasso II uses.

If you want to compare it to something in existence, then the Piccolo comes closest. It is based on the same chip, though necessarily an older design.

I wonder if anyone has benchmarked it vs. the picasso II and II+ to see for sure.

I personally did not. I had a GVP Spectrum before, which is roughly equivalent to the Picasso II. In my "daily work" (cough) I did not notice any difference between the two, except that Matze's design allows screen modes the GVP could not deliver due to the lack of memory bandwidth. Otherwise, I do not use graphics intense applications on the Amiga, so despite the available resolutions, it does not make much a difference for me.

[Rotzloeffel]

BTW, what's with the "break-off" corner on the kryo card?

Yea, you can break the edge, to use it in the A500 Side-expanstion with an Edge-adapter keep in mind, that you need at least an 020 Accelerator for Picasso96

[drphilxray]

Im not saying you're wrong about the retina, but i picked one up on a lark, as my ZZ9000 won't play nice with either A3000D or A4000D - as they don't have a superbuster rev 11 doing full glitch free DMA.
That's my understanding from "Dr Chris Edwards" and he understands a lot. (LinuxJedi has a ZZ running fine w/rev 9 but he's a Jedi master
My big boxes have rev 7 and rev 9 respectively and im about to get a rev 11.

Amiga RTG really is hard to do easily. I'm also going to try out the new PicII clone, probably- on the A4K
The ZZ was great on the A3K  - when it worked, usually less than an hour before freezing up every time - and my A3000 works great now without it.
But it has amazing dynamic range, ethernet, and usb so it is a pricey but full featured 21st century card.
Just wish Dave Haynie had the time/resources to get SB up to speed on all models, but he did amazing considering he was a 1 man ZII/III designer band!