**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Imho Indivision is the best route. Pop it in, use almost any modern-ish (VGA-style) monitor, OS-independent. They usually run around $90-$95 new.

I agree that the indivision does appear the most promising from the 3 option's I'm considering.

But I haven't figured out from reading exactly how Indivision works.

Is is purely a piggy back on the Amiga Video chip, (transparent) such that  I can still use my Amiga Monitor from the Amiga Video Port at the back of the A2000?  (correct?)

That is important to me. (to still have the Amiga Monitor option for True Retro display).

Does Indivision give me an option to get more resolution for Desktop GUI (WB1.3, OS3)?

At the point I've ordered the SCART box and it's a local purchase from NewEgg (Returnable), so I'll give it a try.   It does work with HDMI monitors.

Also I am a bit hesitant on having to solder the Capacitor over.  Touching/modding the Motherboard is kind of last resort for me. (Not that I'm afraid of soldering, but Amiga is just plain old OLD and less touch is less risk).

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

such that  I can still use my Amiga Monitor from the Amiga Video Port at the back of the A2000?  (correct?)

Correct.  It piggybacks inside the Denise socket (and your original or ECS Denise plugs in on top of that).  It allows you to display on a modern monitor (through it's HD15 "VGA" port) and a classic monitor (through your Amiga's native 23-pin output) simultaneously.

Attached is a photo of me doing just that.  

Does Indivision give me an option to get more resolution for Desktop GUI (WB1.3, OS3)?

[/B][/COLOR][/COLOR]

Yes.  With the latest firmware (1.10) it allows you to use SuperPlus, HighGFX, and HD720 screenmodes.  Which on a classic Amiga allow you to display 800x600x16 colors, 1024x768x4 colors, and 1280x720x4 colors screenmodes, respectively.  (Note that you will need at least OS 2+ and preferably 3+ to use these screenmodes.  Amiga's with AGA chipset can use these screenmodes up to 256 colors, but ECS limits to 16 colors or 4 colors.)

I'd forgotten that you're doing all this on a Rev. 4 motherboard.  Again just IMHO, I'd look for a Rev. 6+ board as a drop-in replacement.  It's going to provide a lot of fixes over the older model.  See list at bottom of this link:

http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a2000.html

Obviously this all depends on your budget, etc.

[Pat the Cat]

Chance is almost 100% you will have to mod the A2000 ROM socket to take a 512KB ROM (Kickstart 2.04 upwards).

This is probably why you never upgraded.

As for Indi, from screenshots I have seen, it appears to replicate both OCS and ECS Denise very well. It is a very mature product now. The higher 24 bit resolutions need RTG support in both Kickstart (2.04) and Workbench version (2.1 upwards). But it defaults to old school Amiga resolutions so you can see what you are doing, when setting up. (RTG = ReTargetable Graphics, IIRC).

It is pretty slow having full 24 bit graphics on a 7MHz Amiga and not a good idea if you have less than 4MB of fast RAM too. Looks good, but most applications are slower. Some curiously prefer working in 24 mode rather than native screens, but you usually find that happening on A3000s and especially A4000s, when fast RAM is always 32 bit. AGA was designed for bitplane gaming rather than applications using Workbench GUI.

So, sticking with SCART might be the best plan, if you are looking for pure retro. If the IBM multisyncs to Amiga displays, then you are good anyway.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

As for Indi, from screenshots I have seen, it appears to replicate both OCS and ECS Denise very well. It is a very mature product now. The higher 24 bit resolutions need RTG support in both Kickstart (2.04) and Workbench version (2.1 upwards). But it defaults to old school Amiga resolutions so you can see what you are doing, when setting up. (RTG = ReTargetable Graphics, IIRC).

Indivision is not an RTG card.  It's ability to work with some 24-bit screenmodes is more of a curiosity than a functional option.  See my previous posts about what additional screenmodes you'll be able to utilize with Indi ECS - although they, too, will be pretty slow at 7MHz.  :lol:

[paul1981]

Indivision is not an RTG card.  It's ability to work with some 24-bit screenmodes is more of a curiosity than a functional option.  See my previous posts about what additional screenmodes you'll be able to utilize with Indi ECS - although they, too, will be pretty slow at 7MHz.  :lol:

These snazzy 256 colour modes etc, aren't they just for the A600 for some reason? I have been told in the past put I can't remember now and if so I can't remember the reason why.

[paul1981]

Indivision is not an RTG card.  It's ability to work with some 24-bit screenmodes is more of a curiosity than a functional option.  See my previous posts about what additional screenmodes you'll be able to utilize with Indi ECS - although they, too, will be pretty slow at 7MHz.  :lol:

These snazzy 256 colour modes etc, aren't they just for the A600 for some reason? I have been told in the past put I can't remember now and if so I can't remember the reason why.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

These snazzy 256 colour modes etc, aren't they just for the A600 for some reason? I have been told in the past put I can't remember now and if so I can't remember the reason why.

I forgot about Graffiti-emulation mode. Never got it to work with anything, I think you might be right - only works on the A600. From what I recall when I researched it at the time it was because the A600 installation goes through the A603/A604 bus instead of the Denise chip socket. There's a few videos on YouTube of people using it to play games like DoomAttack and NemacIV (games which support Graffiti mode) on that hardware configuration.

[wbrejnia]

Thanks all both posts above.

I have a clear direction, it will be SCART for me.

Here is a good article for SCART https://www.area536.com/projects/amiga/use-your-amiga-with-a-modern-flat-screen/
and the cable http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_SCART/amiga_scart.html

I don't want to swap out my Amiga Motherboard.

I have more memory and will see what I can do down the road with OS upgrades.  Right now WB1.3 will be my next big jump up.

Some Worth While (Really needed) enhancements is the max I'm willing to go.
Got plenty to figure out with what I have.

Having a LCD-HDMI flat screen (Via SCART) should make me happy with deskspace.

ALSO I'm glad I didn't peruse and CRT RGB-VGA Converter (Direct connect)
Very dangerous to hook up Un-Buffered signals between CRT and Amiga.
Both the Digital and especially the Analog RGB.
I'm sure you've seen on occasion a spark when hooking up CRT via cable.
That spark is high voltage, so could fry Amiga Video Port. (Have proof this has happened to others)
A properly designed cable would have capacitors and resistor, but even then there is risk on large spike....

I've been lucky since I've probably disconnected my CRT Amiga Monitor about 30-40 times during this rebuild.  
(Even if I kept them power off and grounded during hook up)
NO MORE!!

If I every decide on using that NICE IBM CRT monitor I have is will be with a GBS8200 (more reading has proven them safe buffer).  Cheap too!!

[wbrejnia]

Correct.  It piggybacks inside the Denise socket (and your original or ECS Denise plugs in on top of that).  It allows you to display on a modern monitor (through it's HD15 "VGA" port) and a classic monitor (through your Amiga's native 23-pin output) simultaneously.

Attached is a photo of me doing just that.  



Yes.  With the latest firmware (1.10) it allows you to use SuperPlus, HighGFX, and HD720 screenmodes.  Which on a classic Amiga allow you to display 800x600x16 colors, 1024x768x4 colors, and 1280x720x4 colors screenmodes, respectively.  (Note that you will need at least OS 2+ and preferably 3+ to use these screenmodes.  Amiga's with AGA chipset can use these screenmodes up to 256 colors, but ECS limits to 16 colors or 4 colors.)

I'd forgotten that you're doing all this on a Rev. 4 motherboard.  Again just IMHO, I'd look for a Rev. 6+ board as a drop-in replacement.  It's going to provide a lot of fixes over the older model.  See list at bottom of this link:

http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a2000.html

Obviously this all depends on your budget, etc.

Nice display you have there with the Indivision ECS.

Your PHOTOs really shows it off.  
The Amikit screen shots are pathetic if this product is that good.  http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=82&products_id=918
(Why would they show those SCREENSHOTS as examples.  It's what turned me off)

Tempting.

Are you saying I need A MOBO replacement to enjoy the quality you show?
Or is the MOBO upgrade for something else?

I'll have 8MB of extra Ram (possibly only 6mb - From what I read about Bridgeboard address Space Conflict). [with the GVP Impact A2000-HC+8 Series II card I just got]

The Indivision solution is not much more than the SCART converter which I still can return.

(All assuming I don't need to upgrade my Rev4 Motherboard).

[wbrejnia]

What about a VA2000 Card (vs Indivision ECS)

http://shop.mntmn.com/product/mnt-va2000-amiga-graphics-card-zorro-ii-iii-batch-2-preorder

MORE $, longer wait... but could be better overall in the long run...

HOWEVER when reading the spec :

-> (RTG requires 68020)
-> (Uses 4MB of Zorro II)
---> Probably complicated to setup across all AmigaOS's (WB1.2,W1.3, OS2x,3x etc. I wan't to be able to demo all possible)

so again I'm stuck with my basic (A2000 Rev4)!!

I think Indivision ECS is my best bet. (since even with SCART and HDMI aspect ratio of HDMI TV-Type monitors isn't as good as a VGA).

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Your PHOTOs really shows it off.
The Amikit screen shots are pathetic if this product is that good. http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=82&products_id=918
(Why would they show those SCREENSHOTS as examples. It's what turned me off)

Haha.  Maybe AmigaKit would like to chime in on why their photos are so terrible?  It's a shame that my two-year-old camera phone takes better photos than anything on their website.  

Are you saying I need A MOBO replacement to enjoy the quality you show?

Not at all.  If you look at the list in the link I provided you'll see that newer (Rev. 6+) boards provide many fixes over the older boards.  If your older Rev. 4 board is working fine, then carry on, I suppose.  

---> Probably complicated to setup across all AmigaOS's (WB1.2,W1.3, OS2x,3x etc. I wan't to be able to demo all possible)

AFAIK no RTG software works under 1.2/1.3.  Maybe a few esoteric custom, home-brewed solutions.  Either way you're setting yourself up for a much greater challenge, trying to use RTG under 1.2/1.3.  Not to dissuade you, good luck if you try!  

[wbrejnia]

AFAIK no RTG software works under 1.2/1.3.  Maybe a few esoteric custom, home-brewed solutions.  Either way you're setting yourself up for a much greater challenge, trying to use RTG under 1.2/1.3.  Not to dissuade you, good luck if you try!  [/QUOTE]
I guess my question is do I need RTG to display WB 1.2/1.3 in native display format.  I just want to be able to run it.  Also run Old Games from Floppy/Gotek.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I guess my question is do I need RTG to display WB 1.2/1.3 in native display format.  I just want to be able to run it.  Also run Old Games from Floppy/Gotek.

RTG is for newer games that support graphics cards, and productivity software / Workbench.  It will have no effect on older games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retargetable_graphics

[wbrejnia]

An LCD DISPLAY Solution (RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY EYES)  Literally

So before making any decisions (ie to go Indivision or GBS-8200) I found this list of LCD monitors that support 15.7kHz.

http://15khz.wikidot.com/

I went thru all the old LCD's, Kids old monitors, and no matches.

Then I noticed the LABEL on the bottom of my Main Workstation Screen (that I'm typing on now) "HP L2335".  IT is on the Supported LIST.


I found the manual on the WEB and sure enough, this Monitor that I got ages ago is pretty Advanced (since it has all kinds of inputs: Analog(Dsub), Digital(DVI), Composite, Component, S-Video, etc).

If it can clock S-Video/Composite, it appears the Circuitry can clock VGA down to 15.7khz.

Then I checked out the ON SCREEN menu and it has options for SYNC/Phase Fine tuning.

So I think it will work for a DIRECT (AMIGA-RGB -> VGA Input).

I just need to make a simple cable with (R,G,B and HORZ/VERT(sync),GND).

However, I just checked the inputs in the back of monitor.



Possibly even Easier (than VGA connector) since it actually has (R, G, B ) separate inputs too!!

-> No risk on Overload/High Voltages like a CRT.

Nice for a short term trial, but not a permanent solution since the aspect ratio is not ideal. (And I need this monitor for other things).

I contacted AmigaKit and they didn't ship my SCART cable (so I switched the order to Indivision)

** I just ran a simple 15ft cable [COMPOSITE RCA-JACK from AMiga 2000 Composite (B&W) output]  to the [ HP Monitor Composite-IN]  **



If  that works, I'm pretty sure RGB will work.

[wbrejnia]

NEXT CHALLENGE (A DB23 Connector for R G B signals to HP-LCD-Monitor Inputs)

Local Electronic Surplus store doesn't have DB23 connectors.  Yes they are available on Ebay but pricey (Rather spend the budget on the Indivision).

So I can hack a DB25 into a DB23 (dremil).

Or I noticed there is a spare DB23 at the back of my 1010 Floppy Drive (but why break something of value).

[wbrejnia]

RGB + SYNC Cable

So for now I have to be happy with a Temp Solution (Black and White) on my HP Monitor. (Till the Indivision ECS arrives)

Seems that the ( [R] [G] and [Sync] ) can be done in many ways (Combine and Separate Syncs in different ways too).

** BIT COMPLICATED to understand AMIGA-DB23/Composite-outputs [Looks like all signals are all Separate-DB23) vs HP-RGB-Inputs [unknown how to combine to meet spec] )

Even If I were to succeed with a Hack DB23 Connector/Wiring to RCA jacks.
It would be messy.

Black and white is good enough to have a peek at Amiga Progress while I start copying all my Floppy Games to GOTEK/SD.
The HP Monitor Allows me to See (Composite B&W) Amiga in Picture-In-Picture Window


HERE IS A GREAT VIDEO that describes the RGB and Sync Signalling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ