**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Here in Australia 100 3mm LEDs cost me $12.95 (AUD), in china I got a bag of 5000 3mm LEDs for $12..  (I think it was 0.002 cents per led)   of course I purchased several bags just for the heck of it and future electronic projects ha!  
.

Ha ha.
I do overbuy stuff from China, that is why I have everything for each small Amiga Project.

But you bought a few bags of 5000 Leds'.  Wow that's big plans.  
You thinking up building your own RGB jumbotron TV or something
Or maybe an 32" RGB Amiga Monitor     If it's flat after your wiring is done, I'll buy one off you.  I need something to replace my Amiga CRT.

[Raffaele]

WHAT IS THE PROPER WAY to get LICENSED/LEGIT copy of Workbench 1.3 or OS2.x 3.x?

Everything on this Amiga legit (Freewarem or Abandonware). I have Kickstarts Original 1.2 ROM and bought AmiKit OS3x.

I have workbench 1.2 Original Floppies, Bridgeboard Floppies.

But beyond that Workbench 1.3 was a download a long time ago.

I read that you only need ROM to be WB licensed. Is that correct?

Or do I need to buy Amiga Forever to get proper copies of all workbenches.
 Also where do I download these workbenches/OS if not thru Amiga Forever.

I don't mid spending to be legit, but won't waste money if not needed.

Amiga Forever is the only way to have modern copies of legal workbench...

Else you can buy original disks from privates on internet at very cheap price, even defective ones, and use a functioning copy of pirated disks...

It will work and none will hassle you if you own any real original disks then...

If someone asks you, then you can candidly affirm pirated copies are legit copies of your defective original disks before they broke.

[Raffaele]

An Amigan in Italy just bought Monitor ASUS 27" 1920x1080 model VN279QLB on Amazon and he managed to make it see standard Amiga 2000 resolutions thru DB23 Amiga Video Standard connector using cheap VGA standard adapter DB23-DB15.

He made no any modifications and/or buying any scandoubler.

It seems the "Asus Boy" has 15KHz resolution capabilities, even if not documented, then it is capable to see A2000 PAL/NTSC resolutions.

http://www.amigapage.it/index.php?op=v&pl=forum&id=F032017-2-1&page=0


If you need other solutions, on Aliexpress China I saw Monitor Screens adapted for Raspberry PI, starting from dimensions 5" 320x240 PSI Connector 65535 Colors, at a price starting from 10 Euros.

[EugeneNine]

That doesn't sound good.   "No-Signal" "Green-Screen"
I don't have one of these but it appears the VGA side to your monitor isn't right.
What I read is there are jumpers.  There is are also button that you should be able to cycle through the frequencies.
I read that there is a English Menu, so I would guess that menu should appear on your VGA side once the frequency is matched between what you monitor can handle and what the Card can drive.

Also from the Input side of the card, towards the Amiga, you need to check that the voltages are correct.  I read different votagae like the other adapter I am considering need resistors on a couple of the pins.  I posted the cable diagram link above.

All the best, it should work.  Or it's a broken unit.

My Amiga is dead, I know that.  When I got it it has a leaked battery.  I unsoldered it and cleaned it up but still no go.  I just haven't had the time to work on it more.

[wbrejnia]

Amiga Forever is the only way to have modern copies of legal workbench...

Else you can buy original disks from privates on internet at very cheap price, even defective ones, and use a functioning copy of pirated disks...

It will work and none will hassle you if you own any real original disks then...

If someone asks you, then you can candidly affirm pirated copies are legit copies of your defective original disks before they broke.

 So it sound like Amiga Forever covers everything for me.
 
 But one last question.  I have original WB1.1, WB1.2 diskettes. (2 copies of each)  Does that mean I would be qualified for upgrades to WB1.3 etc and and licensed?  Probably not.  Also nothing would cover me to OS2.x,OS3.x anyway.

[wbrejnia]

FOUND a CRT Monitor under Basements Stairs (16" IBM 6627)

Yes, I just proved I am a junk collector.

Deep Under the basement stairs, behind where we store Suitcases I found one CRT Monitor I never threw out.

Model is IBM 6627 16" CRT (DP85 chassis)   (3"  Bigger Screen Size than Amiga)
I can't find any specs on it with GOOGLE.  Found photos, but no specs.

It powers up.   No fancy menu, since OLD 2002 Model.

Don't know it it will sync 15.7Khz. (Going to make a cable to try)



It's not better than Amiga Monitor (size is bigger), but may be safer for Radiation (Wife will let me use it).

Worth a try, to if it saves stress/use on the Amiga Monitor.

[wbrejnia]

** DANGER **  WARNING **  HOOKING UP THINGS to Amiga (RGB) Video Output **

One has to be careful not to hook up things like the GBS converter to Amiga.

Look at this article http://www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/03/11/cheap-rgb-to-vga-converter-amiga/

They guys started off with a Review of GBS then edited it at the end saying it's Dangerous to use on Amiga. (At least the way I read it).

The Amiga Spec is 100ma Max Drawn from Amiga Video Output (RGB).

The GBS can draw too much and Fry your amiga Video-Output Port.  Or worse FRY your Amiga.

DIRECT to a CRT monitor with a Cable Adapter should be safe (if connected properly).
Some folks directly connect Sync Digital pins.  (Can be dangerous like the GBS)
Better to buffer TTL signals like below


the diagram above was just a google search "Amiga RGB to VGA"
(not confirmed if works *** AND IF ABOVE IS SAFE? *** (for direct connect (Amiga->CRT) rbg-signal-line voltages) )
[ Note: the 74LS08N chip is an AND chip so that is why INPUT pins(1-2) (4-5) are tied together ]

I best wait for my Proper SCART converter. (Which I assume has resistors for voltage conversion on RGB [if needed] )  
Both (Cable-Converter[AmigaKit] and SCART-converter[NewEgg] ) ordered and on the way.

I have way too much (time,effort, and cost) invested into this Amiga Project to take chances on Saving a few $ for a bad-hack and Ending my Project in Catastrophe .
That would depress me too much.

[wbrejnia]

IBM CRT Monitor on 486 (Nice, TOO BIG, and 15Khz???)

I hooked up the IBM CRT monitor to the 486.

Really nice CRISP Screen Image. (Even nicer the the old LCD monitor).

I hit the INFO button.
Appears to only support 30-60Khz (NOT 15.7khz).
But this may be showing a Range for the 486 Signals going in.



I found the Spec for the G78 MOnitor above https://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-g78-crt-monitor-17-series/specs/

Only talks about Max Sync Frequency (V-160Khz/H-85 Khz).  So no idea if will go as low as 15.7Khz.

[wbrejnia]

So there was an official AMIGA PRODUCT to Hook up AMIGA(RGB) to VGA(CRT - 15.7Khz) monitors

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=733

Looks simple. TTL buffered like shown above. (Safer).  I see a capacitor, so similar to some SCART cables I've seen.

From all my searching I see Guys have taken chances to hookup directly and even un-buffer TTL digital signal.

Just too risky for me.
I must be patient and wait for my SCART solution.

[Pat the Cat]

Pat,

I not trying to build a computer to do anything other than have a Retro Demo machine:
->> Real retro feel (So Amiga Monitor is Fine, 8088 Bridgeboard is perfect, RLL drive nice touch).
->> Show old games, history of Amiga OS, PC OS, etc
 ->> Using (Real A2000 Keyboard, Mouse and Epyx Joystick adds to the feel).  
 ->> Even throwing in 5.25" and 3.5" floppy is an experience not replicatable elsewhere.

Of course a few modern convinces like the Gotek-USb-Stick, the XT-IDE SD card are a bonus to move software around and boot in many old settings (workbench's ) with EASY flip to each.

Have these Gotek/ISA-IDE cards eliminate the need for Network on Amiga. Even if I did, 68000 just too slow from what I read.
I'm better off putting back that RS232 Card into PC side, and running a Null modem to Amiga side to demonstrate old Serial communication.
(would it be cool to run Amiga Explorer on PC and talk to Amiga within the A2000/Same screen. But I doubt Explorer will work on 8088)

Having a Kickstart Switcher to allow me to Boot WB1.2, old games and also Amiga WB1.3 OS2/3 would be ideal. I am on waiting list for one, since can't seem to find any available.

Ideally a real Hard Disk on the Amiga side would be nice, since I can tell now with things working, the Cross-bridgeboard access to RLL drive isn't that fast. But I haven't tried Cross-bridge access to the Lo-tech SD card yet (if possible via a AMIGA PARTITION on SD card)

And last but not least as you say, memory might be needed for higher OS, and demo higher demanding Amiga SW.

So as I mentioned before, I have my mind set something like this unit... (GVC-Impact A2000+HC+8) which would give me a SCSI amiga Drive and 8 Mb of DMA memory.

(You originally recommended I get a SCSI controller, before I decided on the Lo-Tech Adapter [No regrets, it was frustrating to get fully working, but FUN to see PC fly compared to RLL drive, PLUS removable media is GREAT!!] )

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/impact2000hc8

So to summarize MY GOAL. I want a demo machine, to experience the Retro Past (Exactly like it was). With ability to expand fun projects within (like LED chasers etc)
Kind of like reading the "Future was Here Book by Maher" and then Experiencing hands on some of the Software described.

Upgrading this A2000 with a Vampire card is the last thing I want.  (I tried WinUAE and it just isn't the same)

The horror.... :rtfm:

Look Wally... there are two bottlenecks to your design.

First though, I must correct myself. I earlier posted that Linux had messed up a flag. It didn't, that's how the flag appears on the aminet.net mirror I was using. Linux/Ubuntu access to FFS partitions works just fine, for big files and little files, at nice speed onto the SD card with an FFS card. It was noob Linux user me who said otherwise.

Plug that card into an IDE, adaptor, into an ISA controller, into an XT running at a fewish Megahertz, and then mounting the card with Janus DJMount is going to make access very slow from the 7MHz 16-32 bit Amiga side. Test the speed for copying stuff around.

ISA network card and Etherbridge software through Bridgeboard and Janus might be bit quicker, but still not a quick drive? That's where just some fast RAM on the Zorro II or an accelerator will help. If you do go SCSI controller, be very very choosy. They are not all equal. Likewise, SD or IDE or CF adaptors or whatever.

Goteks can probably be awesome for Bridgeboard users, but again, slow data access - another snag, they are limited to file size length. It's a common bottleneck from the floppy era... OK, some people did use floppies for big archives, but I don't know of anybody that found them long term reliable.

If you want to deliberately recreate a floppy speed maximum experience, OK.

If you just want it to run funky demoscene stuff, then look into maybe chip RAM switcher, fast RAM expansion, ROM switcher. I don't know the dark arts of Denise switching, and am not really proficient at which Agnus is best for which demos either.

To me, an A2000 without at least one hard drive to read and write at good speed and some fast RAM is a nightmare... me, I just hack up a few Amiga mobos into a mobile rig... to each their own way. You do what's fun for you.

[Pat the Cat]

** DANGER **  WARNING **  HOOKING UP THINGS to Amiga (RGB) Video Output **

One has to be careful not to hook up things like the GBS converter to Amiga.

Look at this article http://www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/03/11/cheap-rgb-to-vga-converter-amiga/

They guys started off with a Review of GBS then edited it at the end saying it's Dangerous to use on Amiga. (At least the way I read it).

The Amiga Spec is 100ma Max Drawn from Amiga Video Output (RGB).

The GBS can draw too much and Fry your amiga Video-Output Port.  Or worse FRY your Amiga.

DIRECT to a CRT monitor with a Cable Adapter should be safe (if connected properly).
Some folks directly connect Sync Digital pins.  (Can be dangerous like the GBS)
Better to buffer TTL signals like below


the diagram above was just a google search "Amiga RGB to VGA"
(not confirmed if works *** AND IF ABOVE IS SAFE? *** (for direct connect (Amiga->CRT) rbg-signal-line voltages) )
[ Note: the 74LS08N chip is an AND chip so that is why INPUT pins(1-2) (4-5) are tied together ]

I best wait for my Proper SCART converter. (Which I assume has resistors for voltage conversion on RGB [if needed] )  
Both (Cable-Converter[AmigaKit] and SCART-converter[NewEgg] ) ordered and on the way.

I have way too much (time,effort, and cost) invested into this Amiga Project to take chances on Saving a few $ for a bad-hack and Ending my Project in Catastrophe .
That would depress me too much.

Cautious but exploratory. Something to consider, sometimes the monitor needs both syncs blobbed together to display the image. I think doing this at the monitor end of the cable is safest, with the buffer chip hopefully protecting the Amiga.

Bigger, classier old school monitors are better bets for displaying Amiga images, as a rule of thumb. Analogue rather than digital, that only gives 16 different hues - effectively a locked pallette.

I think you mean scan doublers! Yes, many scan doublers had flicker fix as well!

Other  way around. All flicker fixers have scan doubler, as well as a memory  buffer to store the "odd" interlaced raster while outputting a single  "even and odd mixed" progressive raster. If it needed to output double  lines because the Amiga was doing non-interlaced, it cut in the scan  doubler.

A scan doubler on it's own can't display all Amiga displays? That's how I've always understood the difference.

[wbrejnia]

The horror.... :rtfm:
To me, an A2000 without at least one hard drive to read and write at good speed and some fast RAM is a nightmare... me, I just hack up a few Amiga mobos into a mobile rig... to each their own way. You do what's fun for you.

Pat,

You are hard to keep Happy.  (I do appreciate you pushing for the best!!)

I've always appreciated you putting me on the ISA/IDE Adapter.  I do love the 8088 PC on SD.  Great to demo RLL vs SD.  I'll eventually run some spec comparisons. (even throw in the CF adapter to compare).

It's all part of this Amiga project/demo.  (It's all actually for me.  Who in the World will care about my Amiga in this modern world).

Now time to reveal something I've been kind of keeping a secret for a couple of weeks.  

During my lowest moments of this re-build, not too long ago. When RLL drive/JANUS, etc was keeping my up nights, affecting my health.  I felt I would never solve the RLL/WD controller thing.

I was losing hope, and motivation to continue this whole thing.

So I needed a PLAN B. (to keep me going)

I have been looking since you originally suggested a SCSI controller on the Amiga side.  

During that low point, I made a decision on going ahead with Plan B.

This is Plan B.



500MB SCSI disk, and The BONUS is 8 Mb of RAM included.

It's actually PLAN A to not get unhealthy over a unnecessary struggle.

A good investment for my health, and increases the value of the Amiga.

Should be able to do some more fun stuff beyond a Gotek Floppy booting system.

[SACC-guy]

isn't the scan doubler part is what's important! The vga monitor driver in 3.1 still needed hardware to connect, right?
 
On using vga (31mhz) with amiga (15mhz) from the 23 pin connector...

there were/are several adaptors, the most common being the commmodore 390682-01

But there was/is hardware that actually take the 15mhz and convert it to true vga.

Scan doublers!

[wbrejnia]

isn't the scan doubler part is what's important! The vga monitor driver in 3.1 still needed hardware to connect, right?
 
On using vga (31mhz) with amiga (15mhz) from the 23 pin connector...

there were/are several adaptors, the most common being the commmodore 390682-01

But there was/is hardware that actually take the 15mhz and convert it to true vga.

Scan doublers!

I am just learning and will learn more as I get the parts to play.  (However are you saying I won't be able to go OS3.1 without a change in HW on my A2000.  Sorry i Know nothing. OR is the related to a VGA driver/library in OS3.x).

1) My assumption at this point is that my IBM CRT monitor will be able to handle the Amiga 15mhz. (If not it goes back under staircase)

2)  My assumption is that RGB/SCART/HDMI-Converter solution I will try is going to take the 15hz and upscale it to the frequency for HDMI LCD Monitor will handle.

In both cases I am expecting that the resolution of the Amiga Pixel wise will remain the same. (ie I assume the My Original Amiga 2000 MB Graphics Chip can't go beyond what I see on my Amiga Monitor... Correct?)

Which ever looks best (Many factors: Color, Clarity, Original Representation)  is what I'll leave in place.  
Footprint of Monitor will be another consideration.

--> I haven't even gone beyond any OS beyond WB1.2,  Glanced at WB1.3.

--> Going into OS2.x, O3.x will be totally new.  Never touch it, never seen it on my A2000.

All part of this journey (upward thru Retro Amiga Timeline)

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Imho Indivision is the best route. Pop it in, use almost any modern-ish (VGA-style) monitor, OS-independent. They usually run around $90-$95 new.

[wbrejnia]

Imho Indivision is the best route. Pop it in, use almost any modern-ish (VGA-style) monitor, OS-independent. They usually run around $90-$95 new.

I agree that the indivision does appear the most promising from the 3 option's I'm considering.

But I haven't figured out from reading exactly how Indivision works.

Is is purely a piggy back on the Amiga Video chip, (transparent) such that  I can still use my Amiga Monitor from the Amiga Video Port at the back of the A2000?  (correct?)

That is important to me. (to still have the Amiga Monitor option for True Retro display).

Does Indivision give me an option to get more resolution for Desktop GUI (WB1.3, OS3)?

At the point I've ordered the SCART box and it's a local purchase from NewEgg (Returnable), so I'll give it a try.   It does work with HDMI monitors.

Also I am a bit hesitant on having to solder the Capacitor over.  Touching/modding the Motherboard is kind of last resort for me. (Not that I'm afraid of soldering, but Amiga is just plain old OLD and less touch is less risk).