**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[Raffaele]

Computer Museum needs Amigans:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72143

[wbrejnia]

Computer Museum needs Amigans:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72143

Thanks Raffaele,

I did contact them since they are old computer collectors for their museum displays.
This is about the old Convergent, NGEN box I found in my dad's garage.
I am added to their database for next commitee review.
They may be interested.

[wbrejnia]

INTERESTING Article from 1988 INFOWORLD (Useful to me for new Segate Hard Drive Controller)

So according to Tracking the new Seagate RLL controller will arrive in tomorrow.  It should allow me to end the mystery of the BB DOS boot.

But when I was digging around on the Convergent NGEN computer, I was looking through old Newspaper clippings and came across this.

With Proper Reference since Copyright INFOWORLD

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bz0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=ngen+convergent+workstation&source=bl&ots=PrGROucX2O&sig=ZKKu8Ie8EY_7rUYrDm9cNSsfzU4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitkuulzeXSAhVl3IMKHackDZIQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=ngen%20convergent%20workstation&f=false



What I highlight above but didn't know 100% is when I change controller from Western Digital to Segate, the RLL HARD drive format will not be recognized by Seagate HD Controller.

Good thing the new controller has the same BIOS Low Level Format tool.

At least I know and won't be struggling with another head scratcher.

[Raffaele]

INTERESTING Article from 1988 INFOWORLD (Useful to me for new Segate Hard Drive Controller)

So according to Tracking the new Seagate RLL controller will arrive in tomorrow.  It should allow me to end the mystery of the BB DOS boot.

But when I was digging around on the Convergent NGEN computer, I was looking through old Newspaper clippings and came across this.

With Proper Reference since Copyright INFOWORLD

https://books.google.ca/books?id=bz0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=ngen+convergent+workstation&source=bl&ots=PrGROucX2O&sig=ZKKu8Ie8EY_7rUYrDm9cNSsfzU4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitkuulzeXSAhVl3IMKHackDZIQ6AEIODAG#v=onepage&q=ngen%20convergent%20workstation&f=false



What I highlight above but didn't know 100% is when I change controller from Western Digital to Segate, the RLL HARD drive format will not be recognized by Seagate HD Controller.

Good thing the new controller has the same BIOS Low Level Format tool.

At least I know and won't be struggling with another head scratcher.

Yes. Many of first hard disk controllers were pratically coupled in factory with only their bundled device model and only barely seldom you could change with another model or bigger storage models.

It was known fact in the early age of home computers in the end of the Eighties. Companies and power users did buy expensive SCSI drives, and SCSI really gave high chances of replacing hard drives mechanics without many hassle issues...
SOHO enterprises and common users were stuck with RLL and ST506 interfaces that were considered as "cheap" or at least reasonably cheap in those times, and presented many issues when you had need of changing drive mechanics. Incoming of IDE standard was a bless for PC users and opened the route to install hard disks in any computer.

[psxphill]

What I highlight above but didn't know 100% is when I change controller from Western Digital to Segate, the RLL HARD drive format will not be recognized by Seagate HD Controller.

Good thing the new controller has the same BIOS Low Level Format tool.

At least I know and won't be struggling with another head scratcher.

Yeah you definitely should low level format when you change the controller. Depending on the two controllers involved, the new controller may refuse to read/write the disk or it might appear to work but give you random read/write errors in the future.

If there is a bad block list printed on the drive then you should enter it if you are asked.

The jury is out whether Steve Gibson is crazy or a snake oil salesman.

[wbrejnia]

Yeah you definitely should low level format when you change the controller. Depending on the two controllers involved, the new controller may refuse to read/write the disk or it might appear to work but give you random read/write errors in the future.

If there is a bad block list printed on the drive then you should enter it if you are asked.

The jury is out whether Steve Gibson is crazy or a snake oil salesman.

We'll the Seagate ST-11R Controller Card just arrived.  Look in great shape for the pennies I paid.  

I still I will test in the 486 Machine.  Don't want to blow the Amiga up since to me it's priceless at this point. (I'm actually putting a power monitor on the Amiga to watch how much I push the Power supply)
- Will do LL format.  After setting the Jumpers to match the RLL (Cylinders,head,sectors)
- With luck new Controller Type (Seagate) may fix my MBR/Bootblock problem (mystery).



Steve Gibson treated me very nice.  He provided a free copy of Spinrite V3 and it worked nicely to prove my RLL drive is defect free (Nicely stressed), just like the outside of the unit shows.

[wbrejnia]

Seagate ST-11R (ROCKS!!)  Hard to believe but 486 Boots from RLL Drive

I started off to a rocky start.  The 486 would crash in POST BIOS.

I switched jumps, and still crash.

I thought the card was bad.
I almost gave up.  Felt quite depressed for wasting more money on another DEAD END.

But then I remember when I tried to Flash the ISA/IDE Adapter, I played with BIO setting to turn off SHADOW ram at D800.  So I did that and one other BIOS change that I can't remember.

The next boot attempt BIOS picked up the Seagate Controller at the BIOS POST.

I then hooked up the RLL HardDrive with Ribbon Cables.

Next boot the Seagate BIOS picked he drive up right away, and went AUTOMATICALLY into a SETUP menu (BIOS driven).

--> The setup menu is way nicer than the Western Digital (Color Menus, Intuitive Setup)

The Seagate card was designed for Segate HD models so a Limited  List of drive were available (Just like Raffaele said above).  A quick lookup on the Jumper WEbsite found a drive matching my ALoak DL300. (I picked it).

--> The drive LL-formatted perfectly
--> The drive FDISK nicely
--> The drive "Format c: /s" perfectly

Next reboot, Floppy out.



YES that is a C: drive Boot off RLL-DRIVE!!! (Amazing!! I couldn't get that to happen with WesternDigital Controller)

What is interesting about the Segate controller is the way it treats the RLL drive.  I hear sounds I haven't heard before (Drive heads tweeking, whistling).

Amazing.

NEXT is to POP this setup into the AMIGA. (And keep fingers DOUBLE CROSSED for a bit more GOOD LUCK)

---> Will the Bridgeboard PC boot C: Drive?
---> Will the Amiga (FORMAT JH0: /  JANUS) pick up the 2nd Paritition (Adisk)?

Have to go out but will be back later to find out.

[wbrejnia]

Best ($10) I spent so far!!!

Here is what the Seagate Onboard BIOS Low Level Formatting Tool looks like.




And here is the best part.  

Too EARLY to Cheer Full Success...
....since this is only on the 486, not Amiga Yet.

But I threw in the Lotech ISA/IDE Adapater and Everything works together with a C: Drive DOS Boot.



I needed to confirm everything in 486, to prevent any Head scratching if it doesn't on AMIGA/BB PC.

-> It won't be a total disappointment if it doesn't work (C: Bootable from SD Card/Lotech).
-> I'd be happy just that have a C: Drive off (RLL-drive) and then Transfer DOS to D: (sdcard)

I CAN CLEARLY HEAR THE (Seagate Controller Working Hard at Cylinder 0 to get MBR).  
---> Seems it may be something mechanical or multiple-retries needed to get it MBR/Bootblock.  
---> WD controller gave up too easy. (I kept mentioning talking about how the LED would PULSE like it was trying)

[wbrejnia]

THE BIG TEST (Seagate HD Controller Card in the AMIGA)

It would take me less than 10 minutes to safely move over the Segate Controller with RLL drive and Lotech into Amiga for a test.

But I am



Yes, I am Afraid to find out that things won't work like in the 486 PC since there are many differences.

--> Maybe nothing will work with Bridgeboard BIOS.
--> Maybe C: drive won't Boot
--> Maybe I'll still need to do the CTRL-ALT-DEL hack workaround.
--> Maybe there will be ISA Address conflicts
--> Maybe PC side will work, but Amiga will still have issues with Janus
--> Some other unforeseen problem like (MBR starts acting up again, etc)

OR MAYBE, just MAYBE everything will work perfectly.

I don't want to know right now if it's bad news.
I rather enjoy this ($10) moment of success rather then get into another big rat hole of debugging.

So I'll work on my Fish Tank Aurdino Doser project which I got code finished over weekend for Pump Calibration Algorithm.



All that's left is to code in the dosing scheduler logic.

Then I'll pop in the Lo-Tech and Seagate-RLL drive for Big Test that could end my parts and pieces hunt, so I can really start the put-together Build of the A2000.

Then start the Software installs.

[wbrejnia]

Even chickens need to sleep without tossing and turning (wondering).

I did it with my EYES CLOSED.

Felt like the Longest boot ever!



Pure Seagate Controller Card POWER!! (no Floppy disk in A: drive)  

No Lotech or CTRL-ALT-DEL needed and it will probably work too.

[wbrejnia]

I just HAD to KNOW (yes... DJmount / Format JH0: WORKED!!)



So I ran DJMOUNT and it worked EXACTLY like the Bridgeboard Install Instructions.

->  I was able to run "Format DRIVE JH0: name "amigarll"
-> After Completion the ICON for JH0: appeared and I have an Amiga Hard Drive off the PC Rll-Drive

BUT the Lotech didn't pick up like it did in the 486.
----> I'll need to play around with Jumpers (ISA Addressing) or whatever.

But I've basically proven that my Amiga and Bridgeboard is 100% good.

-> Amiga Bridgeboard with Bootable RLL C: Drive
-> RLL Drive with AMIGA Paritition (ADISK)
-> DJMOUNt and Format to create a Amiga Drive off PC Drive
-> Lo-tech ISA/IDE adapter will work on Bridgeboard (proven to work, in some special Config-Combo setup)

Now I need to put the bit and pieces together for a complete working build.

....Onward

[wbrejnia]

I DID IT !!  

(All things working  [ C: PC RLL Drive] [ D: PC SD Card Drive ] [ JH0: PC RLL Drive Amiga Parition off RLL Bridgeboard] )




I did get worried since after many boots/configs/jumpers, I couldn't get the Lo-Tech ISA/IDE drive to Initialize (even with CTRL-ALT-DEL)

Then I tried that last Workbench that got the Lo-Tech Working with a 5.25" MS DOS Boot Floppy.

Everything booted, Everything Recognized (without the 5.25" Floppy)

Finally, it Time to Have some FUN!! and Build/Pimp up this A2000.

:banana: ( BB PC) NO FLOPPIES needed with AUTOBOOT ) :banana:

(Kickstart 3.1/ AutoBoot / Workbench 3x) is the last piece to solve for an AutoBoot Amiga.
 

[Pat the Cat]

So ONLY real hardware problem was the WD hard drive controller. Glad you finally got the BB Happy.

Don't think I've ever come across an RLL hard drive that outlived it's controller card before.

You  were talking about upgrading the ROM... just going up to the 1.3 ROM  helps a lot, in that it allows autobooting and use of FFS for  partitions.

Original FS on 1.2 only allows 56MB partitions or so.  Just a heads up to get that SD adaptor working... Going straight up to  2.04 or 3.1 is a big culture shock if you've been used to 1.2 and 1.3.  Mostly positive, I have to say.

Got mine going at last, on an  A1200. Nice thing about FFS partitions - you can mount them on Linux  systems, even write data to them if you set permissions. Makes file  transfer a lot easier onto Amigas that don't have connectivity OR a  compatible file system handy for file transfer.

OK, it's not  perfect, flags on files sometimes messed up, so you have to set them  manually. I downloaded the LHA.RUN file from Aminet, had to set it to  "executable" to run the thing so I could extract lha archives on the  Amiga side. Unextracting on Linux is very hit and miss, usually half or  more of the data is missing.

[wbrejnia]

Answering all above from PAT..

-->  I can't really confirm if the WD HD Controller Card was Bad.  If I got a MBR nailed in and didn't try a Master Boot Record it worked perfectly.  No idea.  I can tell both controllers struggle on Cylinder 0.  Seagate tried harder (I get a feeling the head need a knock to get on that first track and Seagate controller does drive the HD much more clickety noisy).  All theories no proof.
--> I have both 1.2 and OS3.1 Kickstart ROMS (Planning on getting a ROM Switcher to be able to run anything I wish without taking apart 1/2 the A2000)
--> Yes will now Try 1.3 and then quickly 2.04 or 3.1 (Plan is to have Gotek have them all for a Flavours of Amiga Tour Option)
--> I may go FFS but no need for Linux and those property problems you faced (Gotek HXC with USB can get anything into Amiga)

So much to choose from for my next part of this project.  I really don't know where to begin.  But copying all floppies onto USB Gotek should be done next.

[wbrejnia]

WHAT IS THE PROPER WAY to get LICENSED/LEGIT copy of Workbench 1.3 or OS2.x 3.x?

Everything on this Amiga legit (Freewarem or Abandonware). I have Kickstarts Original 1.2 ROM and bought AmiKit OS3x.

I have workbench 1.2 Original Floppies, Bridgeboard Floppies.

But beyond that Workbench 1.3 was a download a long time ago.

I read that you only need ROM to be WB licensed. Is that correct?

Or do I need to buy Amiga Forever to get proper copies of all workbenches.
 Also where do I download these workbenches/OS if not thru Amiga Forever.

I don't mid spending to be legit, but won't waste money if not needed.

[wbrejnia]

AMIGA Monitor VS (VGA LCD Monitor) ADAPTER on EBay

So as I work on the final build I am thinking of moving the Amiga Setup eventually to my desk (So I can sit instead of stand, etc).

Also the Amiga Monitor is big and Amiga can go under desk.

Getting an new Graphics card or RGB-HDMI converter has price and quality of display drawbacks.

Plus my wife is constantly bugging me about the Radiation (x-Rays) that might be coming from the Monitor (she may be correct after I read the warning on adjusting the verticle position, in the Monitor Manual I found)

So I discovered what appears to be a GREAT SOLUTION.
this AMIGA RGB->VGA/SVGA adapter.
I have a few VGA monitors which would fit on my desk.  (PLUS My Main Large 20" HP monitor has multiple inputs HDMI, Composite, and VGA)
Simply plug in 23Pin connector into Amiga and D-Sub connector into monitor of my choice (with proper sync rate).

Price is great and wondering if this will work.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/322384331078?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Sounds too good to be true.