**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[Raffaele]

Useful informations:

Old Bios chips and Hard Drive sizes barriers are explained in detail here:

http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/resolving_drive_barriers.htm


Volume Boot Record

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_boot_record


What is Partition Alignment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_alignment


And its Majesty MBR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record

[wbrejnia]

I'm BACK.  With a TESTING PLAN.

So I spend last couple of days away from the Amiga.  Was a nice break.

( I did catch up reading some of your posts. Thank you for providing.  I like the one that described that JANUS loads before ISA/Adapters and how they are read into memory order)

I did daydream about next steps (Especially during the countdown on this attraction https://www.greatwolf.com/niagara/waterpark-attractions/swim-splash-slide/wolf-tail

and have formulated a good plan.

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A) The Lo-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter problem on the Bridgeboard has been submitted to another FORUM.   Added to thread  on The Vintage Computer Forum, and James the developer of the Lo-Tech Adapter is there with me.  Hoping to get support from the Universal BIOS X-IDE guru's.  This appears to be a Adapter Initialization problem.

Here is the POST on Vintage Computer Forum:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?17986-XTIDE-Universal-BIOS/page35

The only thing I'll be doing is some comparison test (BB/486) using RANISH (part -i) command.  It shows IDE drives and memory Location/Interrupt.

But this will be for other forum post.

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B) Tackle the Boot C: Drive problem.

For the C: Drive (WD Controller/RLL HD) boot issue. I am moving things to the 486.

0)  If I remember correctly the RLL Drive Combo, never booted in the 486, so it must be something in common. (Something with the Boot Image or Drive itself)

1a ) Plan is to look into the Boot Image (Using Disk Edit, down to the actual Boot Block)
1b ) I will also look into the Image of the bootable C: drive (using the HARD File on DF2:floppy via Amiga ABoot.init Boot method THAT WORKS).  
  ** Is there anything different about the Partition, Bootblock, etc **

2a) I will try and FIRST get the RANISH boot selector program working on the 486 (WITH THE MAXTOR IDE Drive [MOtherboard BIOS driven] & [NO BIOS using Lotech)
** This worked both was using Standard DOS 6.2

2b) If I can get RANISH boot working on 486/Maxtor, then I'll try the same using RLL Drive

I believe above should either confirm things won't Ever Work (a dead end), or maybe with luck get some things working.

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If none of the above works, all I will be left with is to test further trying to get Jdisk/Jlink/Aread/Awrite working.

[wbrejnia]

[PLAN B]  - RLL Image Dump recovery onto [A Working Hard Disk- Seagate Maxtor IDE drive]

(Very Tricky but possible)

I forgot about this option I have.

I have a "Fragment Image" copy of the original RLL C: Drive Partition.
The files I dumped onto 640K floppies and saved to USB stick.

-I have a copy of all the sectors of the [Original RLL Drive - Bridgeboard Hard Disk]  (PARtITION 1, DOS).
-Only the first couple of sectors were missing (filled with 00h, since Disk Editor couldn't read).  The area that contained the MBR.
-If I'm lucky the dump contains everything starting at the file system.  The directories, and the files within.

From what I understand sectors are sequential, regardless of Cylinders, and heads.

- So I can bring back the sectors dump, into the IDE Seagate drive, even though MBR is blank. (I don't want to play with the fixed RLL drive. YET)
- Then (bit tricky), I guess the starting point of the Partition, and copy in a MBR from new (working RLL drive) (modify it if needed).

I'm not expecting perfection (a full working bootable partition), but enough to see what that original C: Drive (RLL) had on it.  DOS 3.1?  DOS 5.x? etc.  
Was there a config.sys, autoexect.bat [was it designed to be bootable?].  What there a ((( jdisk.com entry in config.sys)))?

It will give me some clues as to if the original RLL drive was originally bootable C: drive?  Or was it a D: drive with an HARD FILE as C:

[Raffaele]

In my opinion you have to start again from the fundamentals...


1) Put out ALL cards out A2000 and clean connectors and cards with electric cleaning spray...

Use a lens glass and check if ALL pins of Bridgeboard are safe and no missing and do not present scratches that could interrupt connection from card side, and check also there is no sign of rust in the Amiga connector slots or on the circuits nearby...

Then re-seat all cards gently, but firmly.

(If you have a tester/meter maybe it could be interesting to check if capacitors of A2000 and Bridgeboard are still all functioning... A better test will be using oscilloscope and check them with it)

2) Download DMS files of Bridgeboard Installation floppy disks from amigaresource site and using winuae on a PC machine (or using Amiga itself) install them, extracting all Amiga and PC commands and Let's start make a control if versions you are using on your Amiga floppies do present same version, size and checksum...

Maybe you are using corrupted commands...


3)  IDE controllers are very picky on devices that are connected to it. You must set right jumpers on the hard disk to make it visible as primary master to boot. Sometimes ATA/IDE HardDisks wont boot if device has been seeting with jumpers "SLAVE" and then connected to IDE 0 that pretends finding a "Master" somewhere...

Do the CF card reader connected to IDE Adapter presents jumper settings and has been set as "slave"?

Maybe this makes it visible on 486 as if just PC considers CF a slave device.


4) In the end... Do CF card you used presents HUGE partitions that result being NOT visible by XT 8088?

I suppose you have to format CF card with all partition of maximum size consented by XT electronics and with sectors, cylinders, blocks of a size visible by MS-DOS 6.22.

BTW what is maximum size for a partition being visible with XT Computers? 128 Megabytes? 256? 512? 1024? 2046?
On the other side how big is your CF Drive? 4 GIGA? 8 GIGA? 16? That's a big difference of disk-space availability.

You must reformat your CF Drive stricly according parameters visible by XT CPU and MS-DOS limits.

[wbrejnia]

In my opinion you have to start again from the fundamentals...
.....

I agree with you. (This is a good approach for overall AMIGA/PC ->bridgeboard  <- JANUS -> )
Maybe I have a bad connection on Amiga Motherboard, or bridge board in Slot.
Yes, I could have bad AMIGA bridgeboard files.
Lot's of work, and YES I will do (very soon).

But I just finished joining together the images.
Norton Diskedit (Is amazing.).  I can see my whole OLD C: drive file system (From the IMAGE copy).
 All files intact (I can even see the DOS OS boot file)

I will explain soon. (I am tying PLAN B, just to understand the past setup better.)

[Raffaele]

I still believe Amiga Bridgeboard performs hokydoky mumbo-jumbo dirty tricks to made visible ISA slots by Amiga and by PC-XT at the same time.

You said your XT-IDE card presents same Interrupts on Bridgeboard and on 486, but 486 interrupt I suspect it is free, while on the Bridgeboard may create conflicts.

Here is a discussion on Vintage Site where they talk right how change interrupts on XT-IDE card by changing jumpers setting.


http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-19591.html


For a matter of good chance, in the same discussion they talk about Mater/Slave/Cables configuration, and again they talk also about configuring multiple 2GB partitions (on old IDE 8,4GB Drive) to make it all visible to DOS without the need of enhancing bios with external drivers or reflashing its chip.
In the end again by chance, discussion deals also with not booting CF cards.
Most versatile and usable seems to be Hitachi 6GB Microdrive capable to be set as Master or Slave.

[wbrejnia]

Raffaele,

You have my full attention now!!!!

Maybe the card does need cleaning.  Maybe ALL needs cleaning!!
I first thought cleaning cables fixed my problem.
Then I thought it was cabling (Flip) that fixed my C: drive.
But afterwards, I found out ribbon cabling needed FLIP BACK.
So RIBBON cable to RLL drive is like always but now working.

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Plus I like the X-IDE link you found above.

Everything they talk about makes sense to me.

I also played with Jumpers (IO addresss and Base Addresss)
** Both work proper on 486, and on 8086, except 8086 won't initialize **

(I haven't played with x-ide config things.  That is only after you have a C: drive, to speed up I/O)

(Interesting they mention no Support for IRQ (yet), and my WD controller picked up on IRQ3 on 8086, Will check on 486 when I test)

I really like the Explanation of various versions of DOS and limitations.

The problems they had.  But that was at the beginning of X-IDE.
I think many problems were overcome.
But if my Bridgeboard connector is dirty, that could explain why ISA/IDE adapter not doing INIT.

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I still want to test why WD controller/RLL does not boot in 486.
Maybe WD Controller card IS THE REAL ONE NEEDING CLEANING!!

****************************************
** I got a view on the orignial C: RLL Image.
** IT was 100% a bootable drive.
** It has C:\autoexec.bat and C:\config.sys
** I still have to work to see contents of both******.
****************************************

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YOU made a point earlier about corrupt Amiga (eg Janus Files, Jdisk, Awrite.)
I am not using old disks.
Everything is brand new downloads (New made bridgeboard Workbench)
My worry was compatibility and library versions.
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[wbrejnia]

Raffaele,

I looked over the BB and Amiga Motherboard slot connectors.
VERY CLOSELY with HIGH Powered LIGHT.

Everything is perfect.
All contacts are gold plated (Shiny) on BB and slots.
All connectors are fully spring extended.

I don't want to mess up things with Contact cleaner.
Not yet.

Must look at my other test plans first. (like get RLL drive working in 486.  BOOTABLE and see what Interrupts show up, with ISA/IDE adapter)

I just cloned the IMAGE of old RLL drive (with missing MBR) onto Seagate IDE Drive (which works also with ISA/IDE X-IDE adapter in 486).
Will examine and without risk can try to restore MBR.

The maybe put Adapter with Seagate into 8086.

[wbrejnia]

[End of PLAN B - RLL drive Image Restore] Got enough evidence

So I tried many things to bring back the RLL Drive Image (without MBR), onto the SPARE Maxtor IDE Drive.

I tried Disk Edit, Ghost Editor, Recovery tools.  Really close in many ways, but assembling bit-and-pieces to work impossible.

Just too complicated for my limited knowledge.

But I did get enough evidence to know how that RLL C: drive used to work.

FROM BELOW: (Diskedit of Image) you can see the following:

- C drive was bootable (Since it contains DOS, autoexec.bat, and config.sys)
- From size of command.com (it just a little over DOS 3.3, but way under 6.2)
- There was no "jdisk.com or jlink.com" that I could easily see. Which is what I expected.

** I COULD NOT OPEN ANY FILES for viewing, since the POINTERS were off, how I loaded the image
** Best I could get is moving thru directories and see what files were around



So next, I will take out WD-COntroller and RLL drive (move into 486).  

- IT MUST BOOT in 486, to boot in 8086. (maybe jumper, or DOS, or Format, etc)

- TIME to Try Ranish (boot image) (on Seagate MAXTOR IDE drive, then on RLL Drive)

Yes, I will clean contacts, since taking things apart.

[wbrejnia]

486 [RANISH Boot Manager] With MAXTOR IDE Drive (DOS 3.3)

This is was EASY AS PIE!!
BUT it probably won't work on RLL drive, or in Amiga.



1) PARTITION  [1] C: [ 40 Mb] (Created FRESH by FDISK, (DOS 3.3), ACTIVE, Formatted with DOS 3.3, System installed)
2) PARTITION [2] D:  [40 Mb]  (Created by ADISK)
3) Tested to be working (without RANISH Boot manager)
4) RANISH BOOT MANAGER INSTALL (Tested, working)

[Raffaele]

BUT it probably won't work on RLL drive, or in Amiga.

If I intended well your situation at this point nou have virtual C: PC drive on Amiga side, resident into Amiga Floppy that boots, and your RLL Drive with no live partitions. Am I right?.

What does it happen if:

1) You re-create MBR of RLL Drive with command Format /MBR... Does it work?

So I tried many things to bring back the RLL Drive Image (without MBR), onto the SPARE Maxtor IDE Drive.

I tried Disk Edit, Ghost Editor, Recovery tools. Really close in many ways, but assembling bit-and-pieces to work impossible.

Just too complicated for my limited knowledge.

But I did get enough evidence to know how that RLL C: drive used to work.

FROM BELOW: (Diskedit of Image) you can see the following:

- C drive was bootable (Since it contains DOS, autoexec.bat, and config.sys)
- From size of command.com (it just a little over DOS 3.3, but way under 6.2)
- There was no "jdisk.com or jlink.com" that I could easily see. Which is what I expected.

** I COULD NOT OPEN ANY FILES for viewing, since the POINTERS were off, how I loaded the image
** Best I could get is moving thru directories and see what files were around

****************************************
** I got a view on the orignial C: RLL Image.
** IT was 100% a bootable drive.
** It has C:\autoexec.bat and C:\config.sys
** I still have to work to see contents of both******.
****************************************

2) What happens if you create again a new MBR on your RLL drive and then ...


2A) you copy the first two sectors of this brand new MBR into a file, on a Floppy, and then pasting its contents back on its 2 starting sectors on your Disk image?

Once you made this trick, you have a live Disk image functiong and ready to be put again on RLL Drive?


2B) What about you build again first missing 2 sectors editing it by hand?

http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/boot_sector.htm

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/DOS50FDB.htm

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/index.html


Standard MBR Structure from MS-DOS 3.3 to Win95

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/STDMBR.htm


Some Useful Tools:

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/tool/FreeTools.html

Read here:

    For TECHs, programmers and Advanced Hackers:

    PhysTechSoft Disk Editor This is a true Physical or Logical hard drive Editor. (Similar to Symantec's NORTON Disk Editor; except it won't display/guide you through Directory info. But it is designed for ANY x86 Operating System! Use it to examine NTFS, OS/2, even UNIX, etc. partitions; very small, run it from a floppy: comes with its own loader so it can boot itself without any OS on the floppy. It will run under DOS/Win95/98/maybe NT, but not under Windows 2000/XP, because they don't allow direct disk access. You can still use it to make changes to a drive that has those OSs on it though.)

    PowerQuest's Partition (and Boot Record) Info Now runs under any Windows OS !!!
    If you're a tech at heart or an Assembly programmer, then read my page on The MBR in Detail here.

A Sourceforge program that writes various kinds of MBRs:

http://ms-sys.sourceforge.net/

Undocumented MS-DOS features, Secrets and Hidden Commands

http://www.mdgx.com/secrets.htm

(This site has extensive list of Partition, Recovery, Format and Rescue Tools available for any Wintel/Linux System)

Most interesting tools that caught my attention is MBRWizard.

You can find infos about it here:

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/BootToolsRefs.htm#MBRWiz

And here:

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/MBRWiz.html

And on its main site:

http://www.mbrwizard.com/fixmbr.php


BIOS SPECIAL

How to dump BIOS from memory (when you find that Bridgeboard loaded it correctly)

And then save it to a binary file that could be read by an hexadecimal editor!

http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/bios/index.html



And in the end, regarding what we said about Xt-IDE CF cards:

Plus I like the X-IDE link you found above.

Everything they talk about makes sense to me.


I also played with Jumpers (IO addresss and Base Addresss)
** Both work proper on 486, and on 8086, except 8086 won't initialize **

But does CF card works now? Is it being seen by 486 just as like 8088?

Do you formatted CF Card with correct 2GB partition parameters before putting it into 8088 and trying booting from it?

[wbrejnia]

Raffaelle, (Thank you)

Wow!!  So much information.
I feel like I'm drinking from FIRE HOSE and :juggler:

- I don't care about rebuilding old DOS RLL drive image.  I have enough information, and new Build on REAL IDE Drive should work.
-----> I will later maybe try to fix image with MBR
-----> I was hoping to find simple (Undelete, file extractor), like I have for getting files from SD card. (I use RECUVA).  But it want IMAGE on Physical media, not FILE.  So I would have to copy into Physical media (like Drive, or SD card), but my DRIVE is IDE and Windows machine has no IDE.  Maybe RECUVA will work on my Windows XP machine. (lot of work to move around)

-> I am testing now many configs (486 vs 80860
-> Geting Ranish IRQ from all setups to compare.

-> I am going to build NEW WB, new BB installall (WB 1.2)

THen go back to Kickstart 3.1 and try BB install on WB 1.3, OS3.1, Cross DOS.

[wbrejnia]

But does CF card works now? Is it being seen by 486 just as like 8088?

Do you formatted CF Card with correct 2GB partition parameters before putting it into 8088 and trying booting from it?

LAST TIME (DOS 6.2, messy Parititions)
Compact Flash only works on 486. and
SD Card only works on 486. and
IDE HD only works on 486 and  ** THIS SHOULD WORK ((in Amiga)) with 25 Mb Partition, same as RLL **

NOTHING works on 8086 except WD+RLL.  NOTHING else in AMiga PC !!  (NO C: ) (  no D: ) (no C:-rll + D: )

Trying all above AGAIN (Clean Partition and RANISH booter)

[wbrejnia]

2A) you copy the first two sectors of this brand new MBR into a file, on a Floppy, and then pasting its contents back on its 2 starting sectors on your Disk image?

Once you made this trick, you have a live Disk image functiong and ready to be put again on RLL Drive?

NOT EASY.  I am not expert.  Confusing with DiskEDIT.
Tricky with Diferrent DOS, DIfferent FAT,  Offset to Root Directory, to Data, to File Clusters.  (DISK edit take me to wrong places for files)
I am not sure if my DUMP is correct.  Looks good.  Sequential, but first few sectors confusing since missing.
Maybe other tools you provided will help.

[wbrejnia]

** BEST CRASH EVER *** THINGS ARE WORKING (Not sure what/how)

This is very interesting.  I am VERY EXCITED!!!!  (I didn't expect this, when I double check on PC ICON.  I expected boot from A: floppy)

-->>(PC crashed , or is HUNG)
-->>(AMIGA side is Operational)

I put the newly prepare Seagate Maxtor Drive into the Lo-Tech-ISA/IDE adapter, into the Amiga.

** YES I CLEAN THE Bridgeboard Contact with Conductor Cleaner **

THIS IS VERY PROMISING!!

- It shows INITIALIZATION of Lo-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter (NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE)
- It shows a BOOT Attempt off C: Drive (Ranish)

- **** LOOK!!! Janus HANDLER showed up !!!!!!
- NEVER happened before
- Needed for everything (Format across to Amiga Partition)
- I thinks ERROR reading boot sector is I didn't format AMIGA Paritition yet.




- Since handler showed up.  I am going to try FORMAT on Amiga Side to JH0:
- Going to run SYSINFO (before I power off)

- Now I will take out (JUST drive) (move to 486) and remove RANISH
- Not touching HW (Lo-Tech)

[wbrejnia]

- AMiga Boot was Vanilla (only JANUS.library, in Expansion Folder), NO [DJmount, no PC DISK, no Fdisk on PC side)

I just ran DJMOUNT (new Message), never seen before.