**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[Raffaele]

Raffaelle,

Oh, I wish what you say worked.  That would be perfect.
I tried the CTRL-ALT-ESC many time before.
IT DOESN'T do anything.
Maybe part of my Keyboard map problem.  But I think not since CTRL works, ESC works and ALT works.

I think that is for higher Bridgeboards 386/486 that were made with newer BIOS.  That is why I keep thinking upgrading my Rev 3.5 Bios.

I HAVE A 8086 Bridgeboard, not the 386/486.

** IF SOMEONE HAS A 8088 Bridgeboard and they try CTRL-ALT-ESC at BIOS Boot **

I went to AmigaResource.cx and I checked for Manual PDF file. Manual is common to Bridgeboard 8088 and 80286, and yes!

As you said, from some hints (Chapter 5 page 45, it is stated that 286 "has special Setup Utility".

Unfortunately so it seems that the Setup Utility is available starting from 286 Bridgeboard.

Any more idea's

From the same manual it seems that 8088 card should recognize automatically any hard drive controller xt card inserted into bus slot, so I dunno what is the problem.

I starting supposing that you must do installation with original DOS 3.3 disks provided with Janus XT Board and forget for a certain time the idea of using DOS 6.22.

Once you have setup BB and HD properly then you may think to made all updates to software.

A2088/A2286 Manual is available here:

http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/A2088-A2286.pdf

Appendix E (page 71) describes how to instal phisical Hard Drive to PC SIDE.

Somewhere in the manual I also read that installing real PC Hard Disk voids Autoboot from Autoboot PSEUDO Boot Drive into Amiga side. That could be another hint why you failed boot from autoboot virtual disk in your past tests.

It is stated in Appendis B page 58.

As long as it says to use FDISK command provided with Bridgeboard disks I think that this could be a clue to use 3.3 MSDOS Original Disks, and it stated clearly to set the partition as Active.

Maybe something changed from DOS 3.3 to 6.22 in FDisk command that may add some different sequences strings/hex-characters magic numbers in MBR to make an active partition.

[wbrejnia]

I went to AmigaResource.cx and I checked for Manual PDF file. Manual is common to Bridgeboard 8088 and 80286, and yes!
....

If AUTOboot get's diasabled on PC side (when Hard disk is installed) then I've FINISHED (PC side).
 It will never work the way I want it to on the DOS Side without a 5.25" floppy.
(I thought AutoBoot was only for Hard File across to Amiga)
(Why would they disable booting PC C: drive, and keep having to have a floppy, when you install a Hard Drive on ISA Bus).  
I THINK AutoBoot is only For 8088PC booting form AMIGA Hard file. (99% sure)

( I can see special behavior from testing.  If I setup Hard file in Workbench on DF2: and put in WD controller Boots from DF2: Hard file)
( If I used same workbench, but put in Hard Drive, it ignores Hard File)
( If I remove everything related to hard File, and remove df2:HardFile.  the Aboot.ctrl file left.  It complains big time it want's Hard file back,
If Put back HD Controller (same), but if I put back HD Controller(and cable up Hard Drive).  Autoboot HARDFILE errors go away, (df2L file missing), doesn't care because AutoBoot from AMIGA is no longer required.)
 
AUtoBoot does not disable the 8088 PC from booting (I hope)  I see it trying to boot.
After all (Boot from (A:  floppy boot is a PC AutoBoot.  Correct??) (C: drive is just another drive);  STANDARD BIOS/DOS/Bootblock technology

 (Janus talks to C: drive before A: drive lights up.  Then it comes back on C: drive a 2nd time).    
** that is different from normal PC **
** Normal PC doesn't try C: drive if A: is there **
** But this Hard drive check is JANUS checking to see if there is an AMIGA Parition there.  For DJmount to use, for Amiga to Boot from PC DISK Parition *

I am going to continue my efforts.  
The version of Dos 3.3 I have  (fdisk and even format is totally different.  Maybe MBR it creates is different for the OLD BIOS and needs to match)
[ What is interesting is Above DOS 3.3 you can run "fdisk /mbr" to create MBR on first Disk.  In DOS 3.3 that is not there.  Must be done only by "fdisk" interactive primary DOS parition Creation. ** FIRST TIME ONLY **  ]

I will do a video of the Boot and LED Pulses. and Post on YouTube.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what is left is to get PC Drive exposed to Amiga Side.
That is not working.  After Running Janus, I try to do a "Format DRIVE JH0: NAME Cdisk ffs", and it says "No handler"

Why are all these bit and pieces are not working?  Puzzles me.
Today I looked at my original Workbench disk that use to work.
The size of JANUS.library is much smaller.  Must have been an old version (but worked).  The disk is so corrupt I can't do much except look thru filesystem.

I am not starting any more big efforts, till after the weekend.
Must stay organized and do things from start to finish in one attempt.

[Raffaele]

So what is left is to get PC Drive exposed to Amiga Side.
That is not working.  After Running Janus, I try to do a "Format DRIVE JH0: NAME Cdisk ffs", and it says "No handler"

Because you must have reserved enough Free Space on Hard Disk when formatting PC Hard Disk. If PC Hard Disk is of 40 MB, you must format PC Side with FDisk with a maximum of 307 Cylinders to obtain 20 Meg on PC side and then use first ADISK to create Amiga Partition.

Once You made a real Amiga Partition with ADisk, you must pass to the Amiga Side and you must invoke into a CLI window the DJMOUNT command, and only at this point you can format drive with command Format Drive JH0:

Again it is stated in Appendix E (page 71 and sseg.) from  the 2088/2286 Manual.

http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/A2088-A2286.pdf

Why are all these bit and pieces are not working?  Puzzles me.
Today I looked at my original Workbench disk that use to work.
The size of JANUS.library is much smaller.  Must have been an old version (but worked).  The disk is so corrupt I can't do much except look thru filesystem.

I am not starting any more big efforts, till after the weekend.
Must stay organized and do things from start to finish in one attempt.

You have links to many original DMS files on AmigaResource.cx. You can copy these DMS, create new disks and extract the libraries and Handlers from it.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt

[Raffaele]

On EAB-Abime site, at page 15 of discussion of Toni Wilen with people trying to make functioning XT-IDE Hard Disk (Virtual or not) with Bridgeboard Emluation on WinUAE.

They talk about XT-IDE Universal custom boot Rom to make hard disks being visible on  Bridgeboards...

Could it be that it will works on a solid hardware bridgeboard too?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395&page=15

[wbrejnia]

Because you must have reserved enough Free Space on Hard Disk when formatting PC Hard Disk. If PC Hard Disk is of 40 MB, you must format PC Side with FDisk with a maximum of 307 Cylinders to obtain 20 Meg on PC side and then use first ADISK to create Amiga Partition.

Once You made a real Amiga Partition with ADisk, you must pass to the Amiga Side and you must invoke into a CLI window the DJMOUNT command, and only at this point you can format drive with command Format Drive JH0:

My RLL Hard disk is 32Mb.
Original setup was DOS(11Mb) Amiga(21).
** INteresting that is was over 20 like you say **

Now my setup is DOS(20) Amiga(12).
Maybe that is the problem.

WHY DID they make JANUS so "Quiet".
No errors, no logs, when things are not right.
"The Handler message" says not much, or why.
I guess ROM space was precious back then.  Same for Floppy space.
Time have changed.

Ok I will increase Amiga Parittion to (21Mb) like before.

[wbrejnia]

On EAB-Abime site, at page 15 of discussion of Toni Wilen with people trying to make functioning XT-IDE Hard Disk (Virtual or not) with Bridgeboard Emluation on WinUAE.

They talk about XT-IDE Universal custom boot Rom to make hard disks being visible on  Bridgeboards...

Could it be that it will works on a solid hardware bridgeboard too?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395&page=15

I need a customer ROM for my setup.
Will check that Forum out.  Exactly what I was looking for.

[Raffaele]

My RLL Hard disk is 32Mb.
Original setup was DOS(11Mb) Amiga(21).
** INteresting that is was over 20 like you say **

Now my setup is DOS(20) Amiga(12).
Maybe that is the problem.

WHY DID they make JANUS so "Quiet".
No errors, no logs, when things are not right.
"The Handler message" says not much, or why.
I guess ROM space was precious back then.  Same for Floppy space.
Time have changed.

Ok I will increase Amiga Parittion to (21Mb) like before.

Do not forget launch DJMount from Amiga side and check also if there is a JH0 Mountlist entry in your DF0: DEVS/Mountlist directory, or perhaps JDisk Device also in Devs:

Here you can find info on mountlist files:

http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS_Additional_Amiga_Directories

You may clone another mountlist, rename it, and add the correct parameters to it.

[wbrejnia]

Yes, I will run DJMOUNT.
My "Startup sequence has print statements to say what is running and what not (ie DJmount, pcdisk).

Now that I know everything needed, all those OLD many tries (i may have missed something).

*** ONE INTERESTING behavior I noticed and mentioned before **
*** It's what actually DESTROYED my MBR when drive was not clean **
If you cannot read MBR, or after a LL Format when MBR is wiped
If you run ADISK before FDISK, it "Instantly says: No MBR and creates a MBR and 1 parition across whole disk. (No Choice to stop it, except power off)

I have Ranish "part -s".  And I can save a copy of MBR.  Delete all partitions.
Run ADISK.  Then try the FORMAT from Amiga side.

If it still doesn't fix things.  I can use Ramish " part -l: " and bring back old Paritions with my files I copied in,  back

[Raffaele]

Yes, I will run DJMOUNT.
My "Startup sequence has print statements to say what is running and what not (ie DJmount, pcdisk).

OK!

If you run ADISK before FDISK, it "Instantly says: No MBR and creates a MBR and 1 parition across whole disk.

Well starting creating just a working Amiga Partition could be a first milestone too...

[/B]If it still doesn't fix things.  I can use Ramish " part -l: " and bring back old Paritions with my files I copied in,  back

I wonder what will happen if you copy a working MBR from another PC Formatted Hard disk with same characteristics... UHM!

Is there somewhere an online collection of MBRs?

And how to replace/create a good Partition Table with correct DOSTYPE identifiers into the MBR?


[EDIT]


BTW what is maximum Hard Drive size recognized by IBM XT 8088 and DOS 6.22?


[EDIT2]


Here it is a link to a discussion of PC Users encountering and resolving problems replacing 40MB old Conner Hard Disk with Compact Flash on a 286 PC:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-47012.html

I hope it could be of some help.

[Raffaele]

Well going up to the root I find this is a really golden mine useful Forum:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/f-16.html

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php




[EDIT]

Another useful discussion:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-246.html

[wbrejnia]

I tried the IDEA of making Amiga Parition on C: drive 32 mb   (>20mb).

Nope it didn't change anything. Same as before.

I do notice that if  you type "assign" command, before running DJmount, there is no "JH0", but after "DJmount" there is a "JH0"

But why is JH0 handler not good for the Format. (it is assigned, and  is in SYS:devs/JDisk.device)

What is "Handler"?  Is there some file that need to define the handler for DISK (SECTORS, HEAD, etc) "A MOUNT LIST ENTRY for JH0:" i have none
Just like what is needed for a AMIGA Hard disk. (but nothing in the manual says PC disk needs a mount list).  

I tried to create a MOUNTLIST for JH0: but not described.  Plus the MOUNT list mounts the devices.  And my screenshot show JH0: assigned & mounted after DJmount
The only thing that is close is a mwm.device which is a CROSSDOS mount. (which I don't use)

Or does Janus get that thru the Bridgeboard to the Controller on PC side....(I think so, thus the JH0: showing in assign command)
the Handler is auto loaded, but not available (in my case. Something missing). [I remember looking at my MOUNT list on Original working FLoppy.  Noting inside except examples.  And PC mountlists go into DOSDrivers Drawer.

(That Ramish tool is nice.  I loaded back MBR after destroying all 3 partitions.  All is back. )




Thanks for the other reading material for Hotel room at night.
I am almost finished with Amiga and starting mini vacation with family.

[Raffaele]

If you are using Kickstart 1.2 maybe it refuses recognizing FFS (FastFileSystem) Partition. Try just DJMount and Format without FFS parameter.

[wbrejnia]

I did some more reading.

the DOSdrivers is a new concept in AmigaOS.

No needed in workbench 1.2

I would have to move to WB1.3, and to do that put back Kickstart1.3

Maybe later..... (I was working with WB/Kickstart 1.3 a while ago)

[wbrejnia]

LET'S TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT (IF C: Drive Won't Boot MS DOS)

I've been thinking.  When I was reading MBR stuff and bootblocks, the BIOS just load things in chains.

It doesn't have to be DOS, it doesn't have to be Linux.
Just something that is compiled for the processor.

All the Boot code needs is access to the Standard Out Character Screen and possibly keyboard.

If the BIOS truly is trying to boot from Bootblock then unless the Commodore/Phoenix BIOS had something special for DOS, it should boot anything.  Even the manual say's that partitions can be another OS other than DOS.

So let's try this (My favourite Program) RANISH!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQGWriEx2ik

I'll try that when I get back Sunday.

[Raffaele]

So let's try this (My favourite Program) RANISH!!

Oh my... I created another Ranish Addicted!

[Raffaele]

Useful informations:

Old Bios chips and Hard Drive sizes barriers are explained in detail here:

http://www.dewassoc.com/kbase/hard_drives/resolving_drive_barriers.htm


Volume Boot Record

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_boot_record


What is Partition Alignment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_alignment


And its Majesty MBR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record