**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz

Thanks.  I was reading up on it, but thought it was windows. Will look again, and will add to my tookbox.

[wbrejnia]

For the moment, getting the data off of YOUR floppies and hard disk is the priority. After that, you can sit back and consider your next move.

Yes, I made backups of all important stuff.  Onto Hard drive, and USB.
Even started copying good DOS stuff off the 486 my friend lent me (he want's it back at the end)

Also made duplicates of every important (ADF) Floppy. Some labelled "DO NOT USE" and put away.  Like Original Amiga Install disks, WB1.2, etc

But this just arrived today from the Local Seller.  THE GOTEK



Ad was all ready to pop into Amiga.  Came with 4 screws, and a jumper.

The USB stick was included and has one ADF file on it.

I never thought about the GOTEK much.  Thought it was a READ ONLY device to play games (and you write to USB via another download computer).  

But now I'm thinking, maybe you can write to it too, and it write to USB.
That could be useful for now.  
Till I get the IDE drive in (Keeping fingers crossed the BB works, since Awrite,Aread didnt work)
And I wonder if the "Awrite,Aread" is block till a Hard Drive appears on the BB PC Side.
I read that "AUTOBOOT" is automatiically disabled on Bridgbeboard, if a Hard Drive is detected on Amiga Side.

NO MANUAL, but I guess I'll find plenty out there.
Not putting in till I know what exactly to do (Don't want to connect the power or cable wrong and blow it up, or A2000 Floppy connector)

[wbrejnia]

Yes, if you had access to SATA, IDE, SCSI, and MFM/RLL controllers, BB Amiga would indeed be a very handy tool for accessing data on any old hard drives. With a Mac emulator added and a Mac floppy drive too if you wanted a "complete" solution.

Pat, I'm not planning of starting some kind of Data Recovery business.
Just for fun and this project.

But going thru my boxes of disk I did find some good stuff.
Two sets of ORIGINAL 3.5" Windows 3.11 Install disks.  I'm officially licensed now.
I used it to install W311 on one partition of the Play PC.  Foundation is DOS 6.2.

Everything works for Win3.11 but the PS2 mouse, that same mouse works on same computer when I run Win95 (so drivers, or motherboard compatibility/BIOS issue).  Pulled off a mouse driver from that 486, it didn't work.  

Not important.

 I got to do the MFM DISK IMAGE BACKUP and am waiting for the ISA/IDE Adapter, so I can dump (one FULL COMPLETE IMAGE) onto IDE drive, instead of split up onto multiple floppies.

[wbrejnia]

Thanks.  I was reading up on it, but thought it was windows. Will look again, and will add to my tookbox.

Found a site with lots of DOS DISK UTILITIES.

http://ibm-pc.org/utilities/hdd/hdd.htm

 (Spinrite has gone windows,many gens ago,  and no longer has any old legacy DOS stuff,  I'd even pay for a DOS version if it saved me time doing manually)

I'm getting a bit sensitive for virus, tojans, etc  (Dont' want all my efforts ruined with one download, and have to start again from copies)

So I have a 2nd IDE drive, that is a clone of my PlayPC.  I install things on that Clone first.
Yeah, I have to Swap Ribbon cable and reboot, but better than losing or corrupting work.

If I have time, I'm thinking of looking into a Dual Boot Loader.  Never played with stuff like this before.

[wbrejnia]

[ Productivity issue with PLAY PC [DOS, Windows3.1, and XP]

I'm chugging along with the Multi-Purpose Play PC setup.  It does the job.

But I'm doing all these download/transfer via Floppy since it's DOS and Win3.1.

I wish I could at least have USB like when I boot the PLAY PC with WinXP.

I work like this
[DESKTOP[PC] for Download onto USB]
[Read USB in Play PC(XP), Copy to Floppy]
[Reboot PLAY PC-1(DOS), and copy Floppy to Hard Drive, install, Try SW for no Virus/trojan/fake]
[Reboot PLAY PC-2(DOS), and install final tool for future use]
[Sometimes another Transfer to 5.25" Floppy, to bring to Amiga PC]

I guess there are no tools to get the USB port working on that PC when it's DOS or Win3.1 (might not be supported).

Was thinking of a FTP server on PLAY PC (in DOS) so I could network transfer from my desktop. But again DOS drivers for the Ethernet Port on the Motherboard.  And FTP server....

May not be worth the effort.  Most DOS tools fit into a floppy or two.

[wbrejnia]

FUNNY on GOOGLE Searches Recently

This Thread has covers so unique/not common these days topics that some of my recent searches on google like "MFM drive" or other stuff, google brings up this thread near the top.

All good clean stuff happening here

[wbrejnia]

** LAST DOS TOOL I need FOUND ( HEX ASCII Editor - HexIt ) **

http://mklasson.com/hexit.php

[darkage]

(Spinrite has gone windows,many gens ago,  and no longer has any old legacy DOS stuff,  I'd even pay for a DOS version if it saved me time doing manually)
.

I think I have v5.0 of spinrite and its on a boot USB.   The frontend loader runs in windows where you can prepare boot media, but it boots with a dos replacement.  maybe pc dos. or something.  

Im not sure if MFM drives are supported anymore.  

Best to direct message author on twitter - https://twitter.com/sggrc
He still runs his weekly podcast - Security Now.    
He's pretty old school so you may be able to offer pointers for PC side of things.

Spinrite isnt like a tradiational data recovery tool, its more of a brute force rewrite/correction tool.   If you have bitrot, spinrite will rewrite the data so its has a stronger magnetic signature on the disk.   it might be able to fix obvious partition table issues perhaps.    If there is mechnical issues, then spinrite could make issues worse.

Gotek is a exact floppy emulator can write back to the disk just like a normal floppy, do surface scans,  run copying tools  yeah XCopy!!!

[wbrejnia]

DISK Tools [ Trials - Summary ]

So I've had the most tedious computer experience of my life.

I'm mean I love building computers, and trying software, but not this way.

I downloaded and tried every DOS tool I could find that appeared remotely useful.

Obviously the big names like Spinrite, Disk Image, Ranish & Norton Disk Doctor were first trials, but I tried a few others too.

The painful and time consuming part was the downloading, media transfers, testing on one computer, another ,etc

At the end it had to be a DOS tool that would work on my Bridgeboard 8088 DOS machine, and also usable to experiment on the 486 and other PC's I had.

I ran into many issues.  Memory limitations, Motherboard BIO issues, DiskCache, DoubleSpace,  even graphics limitation on the 8088 PC and the other computer I was using.  

I may have more options when the ISA/ESA adapter arrives, but I highly doubt I'll get that working in the 486AT host without a Floppy Controller.

I am planning for the worst case scenario that the RLL Drive will only be usable in my Amiga/Bridgeboard/8088 PC with a 720K 3.5" flopppy.  
Having a working ISA/ESA adapater with IDE drive will just lessens the number of steps and speed things up.

The end result is I'll have a complete image of my Hard Drive (whatever is readable), and then I can do many things, like Low Level Format the RLL Drive, etc, etc


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm no expert, but I learned a lot.  If you are reading this to attept these steps, use this information at your own risk, and practice first on another computer and disk.

SO NORTON (disk edit) is the only tool that will work on the Amiga 8088 PC.
And it can do it all, including the next phase which will be a possible restoration back on the re-formatted RLL drive.

Here is how.



(A)  Even though the Logic disk is not readable, you selection  the PHYSICAL did OBJECT OPTION in Diskedit to view the Hard Disk.

(B) With the Object Navigator, you can jump to any location on the Hard disk.  Important locations are the MBR's of the Partitions, if there is more than one.  

(C) To prepare a limited dump (depending on what media size you have) you can select a starting point and # of sectors to dump

(D) You can write the DUMP/WRITE to a "FILE" on any media you have access to

** CAUTION ***

DO NOT select, Clusters, or Sectors, or Physical Sectors
 since that would actually write to you media in those locations,
and that will corrupt your media destination (ie Hard Drive, Floppy, USB, etc)

** WARNING**

(E) ** SELECT "To a File..."  only **

(F) If you are chunking your dumps, name the file in some logical naming convention so you know what each dump is (for later merging and reconstruction)


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Now for in may case where I have a HARD disk with two partition, First DOS and 2nd AMIGA, I've played and come up with something that helps for both the dump spiltting and the restoration.

In my case, I no longer have a readable MBR or any partition info (readable) by any tool that I used.  Perhaps better tools once I transfer my dump to a better computer will help me more.

But I have that lucky one time capture of ADISK. Adisk shows me very closely where my two partitions start/end.



The Norton Disk Edit tool has different views.  ASCII will allows you too see text stored on the Physical disk, just like I found that work processor school paper I was looking for.

** THERE IS A SEARCH for TEXT Feature that Scan the drive, so using search for key word that you now might be on there, save time going Sector, by Sector to find goodies **

You can also go into PARTITION view, which if you are in the correct location, breaks up the complex PARTITION INFO bits (not bytes) into readable Format.  

In WRITE MODE of DISKTOOL, you can change/adjust/correct those partition values. Which I plan to use eventually for a reconstruct attempt.

Notice the ADISK matches the DISK EDitor Partition view of SECTOR 0 of my PLAY PC.




So once I have my IMAGE, my ISA/IDE adapter, a copy of image on another computer to try other tools.  I'll play more.

But one attempt if possible after RE-FORMAT is I'll dump back the image, and use the know partition information, and MANUALLY write it back to attempt a disk recovery.

Not so much the First DOS partition which is badly corrupted, but the 2nd Amiga partition with appear to be totally readable from beginning to end.

The DOS partition I'll just make smaller, and install DOS after formatting the parition.
Smaller to have wiggle room for the Amiga Partition afterwards.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now one special mention as I tried all those tools one was Spinrite.

Too bad I can't use it on my Amiga PC, since it's quite powerful with intelligent analysis, missing bit reconstruction, and probably much more than I know.  

I couldn't get it working with all the setups I had (the DOS version).  {many reasons}

BUT...with each DOS version the is a SPININFO program that is the includes all the documentation.  Lots of explanation of different drive types, how the work, how spinrite analyzes and fixes things.

But for me the BEST FIND with SPINRITE 3 is the complete catalog and specs of every Hard Drive Manufactured at the time.

AND A COMPLETE list of KALOK drives




I have played with all above, in a limited way.  I still have to do the big complete transfer.
Then I'm safe.

A whole 32 MB worth.

Can't imagine trying to do this with my 500 GB Hard Drive. (on X number of 720K floppies)

SO Next Step is I wait for the ISA/IDE Adapter.  Tracking show's it getting closer.

[wbrejnia]

I think I have v5.0 of spinrite and its on a boot USB.   The frontend loader runs in windows where you can prepare boot media, but it boots with a dos replacement.  maybe pc dos. or something.  

Im not sure if MFM drives are supported anymore.  

Best to direct message author on twitter - https://twitter.com/sggrc
He still runs his weekly podcast - Security Now.    
He's pretty old school so you may be able to offer pointers for PC side of things.

Spinrite isnt like a tradiational data recovery tool, its more of a brute force rewrite/correction tool.   If you have bitrot, spinrite will rewrite the data so its has a stronger magnetic signature on the disk.   it might be able to fix obvious partition table issues perhaps.    If there is mechnical issues, then spinrite could make issues worse.

Gotek is a exact floppy emulator can write back to the disk just like a normal floppy, do surface scans,  run copying tools  yeah XCopy!!!

I may reach out to Steve Gibson in some way.   Wonder if this RETRO/PC/HDD challenge I'm facing would tweak his interest his past, and the foundation of his company.  In that Info section of Version 3 it does say if there is a drive that Spinrite can't handle to contact the company  since they are interested.  Obviously this wouldn't be any advancement but just for nostalgia.

I actually think the Spinrite technology is ideal for my drive.  It's in good readable condition but maybe just lost an area of Magnetization.
 During my tool play one command line that was provided came with a HEAD PARK utility.  And since my bad sectors are all in the very low range (while rest of disk is ok), the head not parked could have cause the corruption.  Thus my thinking is a LOW level format would deallocate the few sectors and the rest of the drive would be fine (especially the Upper cylinders where the AmigaDOS partition is.  Maybe spinrite would have a way to directly deallocate the bad area, while keeping the rest (better than using the dumb Western Digital Low Level BIOS).

I did try the V3 of Spinrite that creates a FreeDOS boot disk.  To big for Amiga PC, but didn't work on the DOS/Win31 PC.

6.0 Spinrite version with USB won't work since the Amiga PC and even the 486 with the ISA slot don't have USB.  But I did try getting my WIN31/DOS pc (non ISA) working with USB for file transfers, and got really close.

This shows a DOS dual Driver trick to get USB on DOS.  
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1046069/yes-usb-drivers-dos
It works up the point of USB recognized (label), and even assigns a E: drive to it, but then things don't work.  Could be my HW.

I just think I should wait till the ISA/IDE adapter comes.  As you mention I can change the address to not conflict.  If I can get the WD RLL controler in with a ISA/IDE-IDE drive, then I may be able to run Spinrite on the 486.

I won't need a USB or even a floppy.  I install DOS or a low gen version of windows on the Hard drive using any of my computers, and pop it in to the 486, DOS boot ready.  The work on the RLL drive, side by side.

[Pat the Cat]

I may reach out to Steve Gibson in some way. ...

I just think I should wait till the ISA/IDE adapter comes.  As you mention I can change the address to not conflict.  If I can get the WD RLL controler in with a ISA/IDE-IDE drive, then I may be able to run Spinrite on the 486.

I won't need a USB or even a floppy.  I install DOS or a low gen version of windows on the Hard drive using any of my computers, and pop it in to the 486, DOS boot ready.  The work on the RLL drive, side by side.

Sounds a good plan to me. It's been 20 years, waiting a few more days isn't going to make that much difference.

[wbrejnia]

Sounds a good plan to me. It's been 20 years, waiting a few more days isn't going to make that much difference.

Pat, actually it's 35 years. Still no ISA/IDE in mail.

I know you recommended the ISA/IDE Adapter, and you ordered one too.
Do you actually have your working in a A2000 with bridgeboard (with a Flash card, IDE drive or both)?

I actually am thinking of a plan B.  Since the Gotek is virtual writeable floppy, I could just image blank Floppies into the Gotek (Correct?) and if I get AWRITE working, copy across from the Amiga PC to the AmigaOS, the copy to the Gotek Floppy which USB (I guess then I have to extract the Data from the ADF file on my Windows Workstation).

[wbrejnia]

Gotek is a exact floppy emulator can write back to the disk just like a normal floppy, do surface scans,  run copying tools  yeah XCopy!!!

Quick question on the Gotek, since it came with no manual just that USB stick and an ADF file.  Maybe the manual is in the ADF (no idea yet).

I also dug around and found this recommended softward for managing Gotek images on PC.
http://www.ipcas.com/products/usb-floppy-emulator-fdd-to-udd.html

When I read that page, it say the Gotek for PC's support the FAT12 format a few 3.5", 5.25" format sizes.  
None of the specs say the 880K amiga file size.  

Does it just not mention the 880K since most people buy for PC, or was it customized for Amiga, and won't work on a PC.
I assume the person who sold it to me on Amazon did something like this  https://cortexamigafloppydrive.wordpress.com/
So this Gotek won't work on a PC without reversing the Transformation to Amiga.

I am learning as much as possible to understand an not damage anything.

[darkage]

I actually am thinking of a plan B.  Since the Gotek is virtual writeable floppy, I could just image blank Floppies into the Gotek (Correct?).

Create blank .ADF within Winuae and then transfer over to USB if you need a blank virtual disk to copy stuff too or use  disk copying software with.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=62232

Yes the STM microcontroller onboard the Gotek is reflashed to handle Amiga format disks.     Its actually really simple to reflash, just needs a TTL to USB convertor.  I did mine took 10mins to do, using the website you listed.

You could buy one off aliexpress.com very cheap if you need a unmoddified one for your PC.  They are $18.50 USD

[darkage]

286 bridgeboard here if you need to upgrade

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?89538-Amiga-Parts-amp-Pieces-for-sale

[wbrejnia]

286 bridgeboard here if you need to upgrade

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?89538-Amiga-Parts-amp-Pieces-for-sale

As if I need to spend more on this Clunker.  Fun Clunker but more Clunky on the PC side.
I could use a replacement keyboard but sold.

BTW. I took your advice and contacted Spinrite Sales email.  They replied that they handed over my email to Support.  I asked if I could get a copy of V1.0, since that version was Old DOS, and designed to fix RLL/MFM drives.  
Waiting for a 2nd reply.