**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

[ Hard Drive - DATA RECOVERY LAB Trial * Needs fine tuning * ]

Man, this next step is complicated!!

I thought I understood things to get the data of the MFM-Hard-Drive.

Basically (I did this with my PLAY-PC to not destroy any data):

Simulating what I would do on the Amiga-PC with MFM-Drive if this worked

1) I SETUP the SPARE IDE-DRIVE (and put some files on it)

2a) The plan was to dump sectors off the IDE-DRIVE on to Floppy (using Norton DISKEDIT dump sector feature TO A FILE)
2b) Then COPY the Floppy (sector dump file) to another computer
3c) This would required many DUMPS since the floppy could only hold 720Kb per dump

- I actually worked (but it didn't work as I expected)
- It didn't dump a file named DUMP onto the Floppy (even though a file appeared doing a "dir a:"
- I actually did a Data Dump into the Floppy (into the same sectors as the SOURCE hard drive being copied)
- THUS it actually DESTROYED the Floppy File system (by overwritting the same sectors taken from the Hard Drive)


The MFM DUMP goal is two possibilities:
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1) Just a simple dump that I can use on another better computer to read my School Work
2) Bit more ambitious (but get a dump of the MFM drive) so that I could re-built the AMIGA-PARTION
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I need to play more with Norton, since there are so many tools and within each many options.

I also need to look for other tool for Hard Drive Content Dumps (But they need to be small DOS tools that can read a Physical Drive, not logical drive)

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BTW.  From my scanning, it appears the DOS PARTITION is nearly BLANK (All Zero's).
 It must have been just simple MS DOS Boot Partition (just like the Floppy I'm using now to get the AmigaPC started)
So no need to worry about PARTITION 1. (MS DOS Boot Partition).  ** That I can just install fresh after I get data off Partition 2 **

I bet if I Re-Partition and Format the First Partition to have the AMIGA-PC boot DOS (ie restore the MBR).  
The 2nd AMIGA partition which looks good from SCANNING, may actually POP into existence.

(But too early to try that, since I worry a Format of the FIRST PARTITION, may format into the 2nd Partition if the START and END points of the first partition are incorrect)
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Looking for other DOS based data recovery tools to make this easier.

I mean once I have a copy of the MFM disk (bytes in HEX/ACSII) That is good enough for me to start more risky things.

If anyone knows of some Simple (DOS) HARD DRIVE (RAW Physical-Dump) Tools please pass on.

[wbrejnia]

ACTIVE@ Disk Image for DOS looks promising. (but probably won't work for the AmigaDOS image)

http://disk-image.net/document_dos.htm

But it's good enough to get the RAW Surface image of the MFM drive.

Then I'll need a similar program for the AMIGA (any out there?)

[darkage]

Disk imaging software

I think this one looks promising - http://www.brutman.com/PCjr/pcjr_downloads.html

I get the feeling some might be more focussed for Diskette imaging.   The link above I think it does fixed disks.  

You wont be able to  save the image to the same partition/disk your imaging from.      See if you can get another hdd running side by side to save the image too.

Discussion about imaging software - http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?36239-Disk-imaging-software-for-DOS

[wbrejnia]

Disk imaging software

See if you can get another hdd running side by side to save the image too.

Darkage, Thanks for everything in above post.  I always go back on these posts to look for gold nuggets.
(Brutman's look interesting since it tried multiple-re-read on bad data)

But you are thinking the same things I am (why do all these floppy copy stuff).  
If I can get a 2nd Hard disk on the AMIGA PC, that changes everything (SIDE-BY-SIDE HD's ).

The KEY is that Low-Tech-ISA-IDE adapter.  It just entered US customs and is on the way.  
That will hopefully allow me (to use my IDE drive) in the AMIGA PC-ISA slot.
 
(** I have no way to put the MFM-Controller into anywhere else  **)
 But I just found this, there is a way [disable IDE in bios] (but again I have no Floppy to boot from) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-10200.html


The big question is, can a PC XT have two HARD DRIVE CONTROLLERS?

It didn't allow me to do that in the 486AT, but maybe that is because the HD Controller in there is a 16Bit, and the WD-MFM-HD controller is 8 bit.

Keeping my fingers crossed on the ISA-IDE adapter.

If someone can answer (If two HD controllers can go into an XT) then I should stop the sloppy-floppy work, and wait for the ISA-IDE Adapter.

[wbrejnia]

Discussion about imaging software - http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?36239-Disk-imaging-software-for-DOS

Hillarious

The guy had an MFM Drive like me, and there are folks that were offering to get the data off it ($free) , and send him a CD with a copy of the DATA (if he let them keep the MFM Drive).

Looks like MFM drives are hard to find and valuable (even back in 2013).  Thus why you found the $MFM$ drive for a hefty price.

I'm holding on to mine  For now.
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IF I HAVEN't Posted this before YOU GO TO CLICK on this EBay Sale
This would solve my 486-AT 2x (HD Controller Conflict Problem) by putting in an 8-BIT-ISA-Floppy-Controller in to (BOOT DOS floppy)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MicroSolutions-CompatiCard-I-PC-XT-8-bit-ISA-Floppy-Controller-VINTAGE-1987-/232222790211?hash=item36118e9243:g:xxcAAOSwbsBXjBbs

Just a few pennies.  10,229,989 pennies that is
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[darkage]

Im pretty sure the marketing spill for the ISA XT CF card you got, mentions that it can co-exist with MFM/RLL controller cards.    It has a large selection of different addresses for this purpose.

Edit - Ive still have a full height 5.25" MFM drive in my parents garage.   Sounds like a jet taking off.   THink it has a bad sector towards the end of the drive, since on my a500 it would corrupt at the exact same % full.

[darkage]

IF I HAVEN't Posted this before YOU GO TO CLICK on this EBay Sale
This would solve my 486-AT 2x (HD Controller Conflict Problem) by putting in an 8-BIT-ISA-Floppy-Controller in to (BOOT DOS floppy)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MicroSolutions-CompatiCard-I-PC-XT-8-bit-ISA-Floppy-Controller-VINTAGE-1987-/232222790211?hash=item36118e9243:g:xxcAAOSwbsBXjBbs

Just a few pennies.  10,229,989 pennies that is
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It could be worse https://www.wired.com/2012/08/the-ridiculously-overpriced-vintage-tech-of-ebay/

[wbrejnia]

Im pretty sure the marketing spill for the ISA XT CF card you got, mentions that it can co-exist with MFM/RLL controller cards.    It has a large selection of different addresses for this purpose.

Thanks for pointing that out.  I remember reading it in my Super-Rookie stage and didn't have a clue what that meant.  Now I do.

I have to thank Pat to suggesting the ISA-IDE-Adapter, it might prove more useful than originally planned.

I you suggested the Gotek drive.  Well I found one here locally for a good price and it should arrive any day. Beige to match the A2000 Case.  Flashed and ready for the Amiga.

It will be fun to SUPER PIMP this amiga.

The Thread/YouTube would have a interesting subject:

[Classic Amiga2000 - w Amiga Monitor - Mouse - Keyboard] [8088 Bridge board XT-PC - 512k, Math Co-Processor, BB - 5.25" Floppy] [8bit RS232 Serial Card ]  [ Lo-Tech 8bit ISA-IDE-Adpater <-> 60GB IDE Drive ] [WD1002-27x-8Bit-HD-Controler <-> 32 MB - MFM Octagon 320 Hard Drive] [Amiga 1010 3.5" External-Floppy] and a  [GOTEK Floppy Emulator]

did I miss anything?

Might be a good subject for a Ebay Auction....(but better to sell the MFM-drive/Controller separately)

[Pat the Cat]

I have to thank Pat to suggesting the ISA-IDE-Adapter, it might prove more useful than originally planned.

I've ordered one myself, you are not the only guy with data to be mined out of magnetic storage archives.

I you suggested the Gotek drive.  Well I found one here locally for a good price and it should arrive any day. Beige to match the A2000 Case.  Flashed and ready for the Amiga.

Sometimes they need a little extra attention to make them "TRUE" Amiga floppy drives. More specifically, the RESET pin needs connecting or some stuff just won't load.

[wbrejnia]

MFM Partition Information Restored [Using correct sequence of steps & some Luck]

This is hard to explain, but I'll try my best.

(* I am NO EXPERT on filesystems/disks by any means *)

I experimented on a 2nd spare system (creating Dos and Amiga Partitions, destroying them, and restoring successfully),
then hacked multiple times as below on the MFM disk (corrupted with read errors) once I had confidence I could get an Partial Disk Image copy of the HD Data.

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Basically my Eye's got Blurry and my Brain got cloudy trying to figure out everything about MBR's, Filesystems and many tools like Norton, etc..

I knew my MFM Hard drive had two partitions (DOS & AMIGA) from that Lucky 1 time it picked up (via ADISK).  
So I also had the Start/End sectors and Size of each Parition.
 I also had the Physical Characteristics of my Hard drive.

I kind of understand DOS Filesystem, but was concerned that AMIGAdos was different, so this helped http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html#p6

AmigaDOS HardDIsk filesystem is A RIGID DISK BLOCK File system like FAT-16 is to DOS.  (Amiga Floppies are different)

What Appears to be theory (since I never found it), is that the ASCII characters "RDSK" (capital)are in the first 4 bytes of the Partition.

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What I did to restore the MFM drives patrition tables entries could have been possibly done with Norton or other tools, but I got tired
and took a chance....going past that "ADISK" screen that I feared...
(I always rebooted the Amiga PC "Not hitting any key to proceed.
[which is what you should always do to prevent a MBR overwrite on the HD]


** THIS BELOW is not a recommendation to anyone trying to restore a partition and get their Filesystem back.
This just happen to work for me since my Filesystem is corrupted and only chance of getting data is from a Physical Disk Image SCAN Copy **


The above steps worked (partitions were in place).  Reboot put things back to a corrupted disk thus not a readable MBR.

Thus.., I  learned my Filesystem is corrupt (but data there) since DOS still would not load the MBR and Partitions (fdisk would not pick up partition, adisk would be a hit and miss).  Norton DiskEditor could see data.

I did that risky step since I knew I could SCAN the Physical Disk to get contents, and from Practice I learned that Changing Partition tables doesn't destroy data, or their structure

(ie You can change Partitions (Manually), loose File sytem, change Partitions back, and filesystem comes back), basically what Norton DISKTOOL Rescue disk does.

SO my next step, is copy off the DISK IMAGE (see What I can recover [files, or raw ASCII text] using a FASTER BETTER COMPUTER)

And then LOW LEVEL FORMAT THE MFM DRIVE (see what happens, ie Bad Sectors, Re-Parition, Format and Install DOS / Workbench).

If 2nd Partition Image (AmigaDos) Copy is good, I will attempt to copy back on MFM Drive after Low Level Format (Another option is another drive, if the MFM drive continue to get errors (after low level Format) DUE to age).

[Raffaele]

Raffaele, I'm not expert (YET), but if you have having boot problems, have you set the IDE drive Partition to Active, and installed  Bootstrap code?

If I remember well I used Ranish because I wanted to install Linux as second OS on my Pentium 266 MHz and I resized partitions giving any a different identifier.

Some went wrong with Windows partition but I managed to solve it.

Now it had been passed more than 20 years. I do not remember if I rebuild FAT table or I need to enter the cylinders/sectors/head where it started phisically the Windows partition that hard disk electronic assumed it should start at another position.
I used mainly Ranish and another tool I forgot the name. But I did it... All with my bare knowledge of MBR and Fat problems with the risk of loosing all my data. ;-)

If I remember well elder versions of Ranish had more features for imposing DOSType hex in the start sectors of the HDD and for tricking DOS where partition had to start. It was potentially very dangerous for non-expert users, but very useful.

I wonder what could happen if you put your MFM HD Controller on a Linux Machine and starting play with it with modern tools like GPartEd and KDE Partition Tool, or using a Linux Rescue CD from a Windows Machine... Sure they could give you the hint if patition is out of its cyl, secs original bounduaries.

[wbrejnia]

Found the Official Corporate "Active @ Disk Image" Site with Freeware version 7.0.4.

http://www.disk-image.com/download.htm

I grabbed a copy before Software like this becomes hard to come by.

I'm actually in the process downloading/installing all kinds of tools (in the Play-PC Hard Drive)

"File Recovery Image Scanner"
"A Hex/ASCII Viewer/Editor"
"Image Maker"
"Norton Disk Doctor Suite"
"Ranish Partition Manager"
"GPart DOS Version"
"...etc"

I thinking if making this Amiga/ PC a really nice Data Recovery LAB. (Just for fun).

I'm building up the IDE Hard Disk with a DOS6.2 Partition, that I'll be able to Pop Into the Amiga/PC with the ISA/IDE adapter and Amiga PC should just boot up ready with everything in place.

Much faster than doing the installs thru the 8088 Bridge board PC.

My Doomsday clock is ticking on making the AmigaPC boot off a Hard Drive (setup).
The 5.25" disks are starting to fail.  A few won't even re-format anymore.
Currently without a 5.25" DOS boot disk the Amiga PC can't boot.

I bet my decades old 3.5" Amiga PC disk are the same.
Some of the games I have are not available for download (C) .
Plus some of the Classic Floppy Based ADF games, can't run of OS/HD (maybe there is a way).
Thus the justification for the Gotek Drive.

[Pat the Cat]

Yes, if you had access to SATA, IDE, SCSI, and MFM/RLL controllers, BB Amiga would indeed be a very handy tool for accessing data on any old hard drives. With a Mac emulator added and a Mac floppy drive too if you wanted a "complete" solution.

The tricky part is assembling the software suite needed for such a purpose, but I think you've got most of that already by now.

If you do go that route, I daresay you will have an easy to use backup of the software suite, for completely resetting the system in between archive jobs. It will save you an awful lot of work in the future.

For the moment, getting the data off of YOUR floppies and hard disk is the priority. After that, you can sit back and consider your next move.

I bet my decades old 3.5" Amiga PC disk are the same.

They should be in better condition than the 5.25 High Density disks. First, the magnetic layer on them is twice as thick. Second, they have a dust cover built in to keep out dust and smoke particles. Even a partial read of a disk is useful, somebody else might have an incomplete ADF, and between the two incomplete sets, a complete set of data can be reborn.

[Plaz]

Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz

[Pat the Cat]

Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz

Yes, I have heard very good things about Spinrite. DOS utility for extracting data from damaged drives. Was very useful a few years back at my local Hackspace, when an old PC drive that controlled a CNC lathe failed. I had completely forgotten about it!

[wbrejnia]

Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz

Thanks.  I was reading up on it, but thought it was windows. Will look again, and will add to my tookbox.