**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Question on SCSI interface connectors (MAY HAVE Plenty of SCSI Drives)

I just remembered something....

Since I was a SUN administrator years ago at work (before SUN Equip. got replaced). I built many SUN Systems, including RAID Storage, etc.

At work in my Storage Room I have a ton of SCSI Drives in a box (at least 10-30).

If I buy that card [COMMODORE AMIGA GVP Impact A2000-HC+8 Series II Rev II A2000, A3000, A4000] on Ebay will one of those SCSI Drives work with this Card.



My point is I'm not sure what kind of Interface Connector those SCSI Drives have. I assume there are many generations and Rev Versions of Signalling (But SCSI may have some standards).

Regardless of the connector, would there be a conversion cable to make them work?

I would have to drive to my Storage Room which is about a hour away (To have a look at them).

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

A2091 uses a 50 pin SCSI cable for internal devices (as do most Amiga SCSI cards). Other common sizes are 68 pin and 80 pin. Yes, you can get adapters for all. Just watch out if you want to use drives larger than 4GB (which would be a whole other can of worms for you).

[wbrejnia]

When you say "whole can of worms". Do you mean I couldn't hook up a drive Larger than 4GB? Or just couldn't use more than 4GB of that larger drive? (but could still hook it up to work).

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

When you say "whole can of worms". Do you mean I couldn't hook up a drive Larger than 4GB? Or just couldn't use more than 4GB of that larger drive? (but could still hook it up to work).

Don't partition more than the first 4GB of available capacity. Large hard drive support was included in later versions of the operating system, via various methods. If you were (for example) to upgrade your Amiga to run OS 3.9, it would be pretty easy. With 3.1 it's doable (again through various hacks/patches/modifications). 2.1 or older it would be a real struggle.

[Pat the Cat]

When you say "whole can of worms". Do you mean I couldn't hook up a drive Larger than 4GB? Or just couldn't use more than 4GB of that larger drive? (but could still hook it up to work).

SCSI is beautiful. What Mike means is, there are different connector sizes.

Any 50 pin controller should work, any device (with some adaptors maybe, cheap). The later variants could go faster, but dropped down to Single Ended if that is what controller used, most A2000 solutions, cards, controllers in that bracket.

You will like SCSI on Amiga. Even with a Commodore card, GVP card. Maybe worst is A570 using expansion for CDTV, but they can do SCSI too.

You can only have 2GB partition sizes to be on the safe side. With the Amiga. There are ways around this, but that is "vanilla" pattern, for earlier versions anyway.

What is KickStart on the Amiga if you have not listed? That is maybe limiting fact. I will check.

[wbrejnia]

Working on the Workbench disk today.

I'm getting sidetracked with this A2000 HD future thing (ie SCSI)

I have 4 projects on the go, and the A2000 Wasn't on that list.
I was clearing my workbench for other projects when I powered up the A2000 to see if it still worked (Big BLACK HOLE mistake).

Here is the project I need to finish. Custom Doser system for my Fish Tanks. (Ardiuno Mega). HW built/Wired(75%), SW Coding (75%).

Fish tanks are waiting for me to finish it. Once done automation will give me more time to play with the A2000.





Other projects on my TO DO LIST:

- A Raspberry PI Project Fish Tank Controller Interface (Linux)
- SDK project for COZMO the Robot for my son to learn programming (Python/Andriod)

[wbrejnia]

What is KickStart on the Amiga if you have not listed? That is maybe limiting fact. I will check.

I have 3 KickStart chips.

2x) Original KickStart 1.2 and a Spare.
1x) KickStart 1.3 (Inside A2000 now). I put in a couple years ago when trying to get things working. Also I did this to see the Newer Workbench for fun.

Should I put back the Original 1.2 to make it the Original A2000? (Could the CHIP upgrade to 1.3 be causing my current issues?)
If I do that, I'd take the opportunity to remove the old Original nMH Battery (it hasn't leaked but it's a ticking time bomb).

[Pat the Cat]

Hey, cool fish. (Paws screen)

What you got here is a very very old A2000 that has never been upgraded. Some of this stuff is quite rare. Like the 1.2 Kickstart, you did post on first page, together with Skinny Agnus and OCS Denise.

You would have to upgrade KS to enable autobooting on ANY hard drive system? I don't know if you could ever do that on a Bridgeboard, autoboot with a PC drive from the Amiga side...

Also, to fit a ROM size of 512K is a soldering job, perhaps. You might just have to go for 2.04 or 2.1 (if you can find) otherwise, this era of A2000 is the first phase, rev 4 mobo I think.

You also don't have any fast RAM as such, you have this weird stuff like on an A500 with a trapdoor. 512K chip ram too.

These things go very cheap sometimes, but their real worth is in how undamaged and pristine they are, on the inside and outside.

[Pat the Cat]

1.3 is good for autoboot pal, nothing to worry about.

Do check the controller will do so too, some of them didn't autoboot, sometimes ROM upgrade. Usually supported though, there is ton of support for this stuff if you look. :/

[wbrejnia]

BACK TO THE Hard Drive Controller and Hard Drive on PC side of Amiga

Let me clarify and get back to the original plan.

If I understand correctly. That HD controller [Western Digital WD1002A-27X] hooked up to my [RLL or MFM/ST ST-506] DH-drive has primarily nothing to do with the AMIGA side (other than being linked thru the Bridgeboard, when it get's exposed to the Amiga side)

So the clarification is when I boot the PC on the Amiga off the 5.25" disk, I don't have the original disk I booted years ago.

What I did it I got some 5.25" floppies and formatted a DOS boot disk using that 486 PC.

Thus I put that plain old DOS boot into the Floppy drive in the Amiga, and it boots DOS.

But it's just PLAIN DOS boot. No drivers for the controller (nothing).

Is it possible I really need some driver to load on that DOS boot to enable the controller. Once the controller activated, the Hard Disk might be recognized and things will be visible to PC and then thru Bridgeboard to the AMIGA.

So it my roadblock is the fact that the HD Controller isn't activated in DOS? (I assume it doesn't just get recognized with On board firmware and picked up on the PC side Bus as a available Drive)

[Pat the Cat]

Here is the project I need to finish. Custom Doser system for my Fish Tanks. (Ardiuno Mega). HW built/Wired(75%), SW Coding (75%).

Fish tanks are waiting for me to finish it. Once done automation will give me more time to play with the A2000.

Put a case, an SD card and encoder on it, it saves you SO much time setting them things up with Arduino dev. Otherwise it's a recompile, every setting. Write them down as you make, you can put in firmware source later.

Also be aware there can be reset issues when depending on Arduino Mega to operate continuously for weeks and months. You really have to understand power supplies and Arduino to get your head around it, but I KNOW it exists, because it played merry hell with getting in to RFID controlled doors monitored by A Megas. You have to strap extra hardware on to make it reliable. I am unsure of the exact details, but Nottingham Hackspace have some of the details on that I think. Their vending machine operates very very well continuosly - years in some cases. The mechs jam, displays get dislodged, but the Arduino is rock solid on that baby. Thank you Dominic Morrow, now THAT's a maker. The doors are pretty reliable now too.

All them folks is awesome in their own way. He builds things that are awesome. Including, you could say, Nottingham Hackspace. Their gits have some very good stuff on. They love open source. Send 'em my best wishes. No further comment.

https://github.com/NottingHack/opensource

[wbrejnia]

Also be aware there can be reset issues when depending on Arduino Mega to operate continuously for weeks and months.

Thanks for the info. Is the Reset A Mega Issue or Generally with Any Ardiuno like Uno?

I already built a mini version of this Controller, and it's been running over a year.
Resets if they happen are not a problem. The code is written to handle resets very safely (This is after all dosing a fish tank and 50ml too much WILL WIPE OUT $2000 worth of corals in minutes). Default after reset is STOP and Wait for human intervention. (Plus I wrote in many safety measures (Max Limits), and feedback via PH probe).
There is a battery RTC Battery Clock module that keep the time/date for obvious reasons.
IT WILL BE 110% safety proof and extensively tested in a bucket for a while before 1 drop of chemical goes into my tanks.

[Pat the Cat]

Is it possible I really need some driver to load on that DOS boot to  enable the controller. Once the controller activated, the Hard Disk  might be recognized and things will be visible to PC and then thru  Bridgeboard to the AMIGA.

So it my roadblock is the fact that the HD Controller isn't activated  in DOS? (I assume it doesn't just get recognized with On board firmware  and picked up on the PC side Bus as a available Drive)

A vanilla DOS disk booting upcould not pick up a PC hard drive without the means to access it. This was put into BIOS on a real PC. On a Bridgeboard, the BIOS was fixed I think. You could not change it? Or maybe you can hack the thing, I don't know. You usually needed a device entry on config.sys at the time. Welcome to the stone age.

But I would  have thought a PC hard drive and controller of the time would have shipped with a floppy. PC or Amiga. Only later were controllers added to motherboards on real PCs.

I think the way it worked was, the Amiga side hacked off the PC side to access the PC hardware, so yes, you would need the drivers installed on the PC side.

With a DOS disk or a Bridgeboard.

Maybe just a Bridgeboard. If CBM had a generic ISA drieer that could access the controller directly, and there was a standard way to do that with that type of expansion, the PC could be just turned on and you could access it with Janus. I'm not convinced it could handle any ISA expansion, but if just HD controller type, then I guess maybe it could. Didn't really need it's own individual controller for the card as such. Genreic ISA-HD, connect, pump data.

There maybe hacks for doing some of that, and I call them hacks because it is very very naughty, technicaly. Some places, anyway.

[wbrejnia]

A vanilla DOS disk could not pick up a PC hard drive without the means to access it. This was put into BIOS on a real PC. On a Bridgeboard, the BIOS was fixed I think. You could not change it? Or maybe you can hack the thing, I don't know.

But I would have thought a PC hard drive and controller of the time would have shipped with a floppy. PC or Amiga. Only later were controllers added to motherboards on real PCs.
[/B]

I don't have that original disk for the controller. And as you say the Vanilla DOS disk isn't picking up the Hard Drive since nothing loaded.
I just contacted this company that sells the controller and they say they have drivers for the stuff they sell. http://www.radwell.ca/Buy/WESTERN%20DIGITAL/WD1002A27X?redirect=true (Wow $245 for that controller, Crazy)

I'll also dig around the web to see if I can find a dos driver/disk for the controller (It think this is my hurdle to solve the Hard Drive access)
So far I found this which is useful (but no SW) http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-disk-floppy-controllers/U-Z/WESTERN-DIGITAL-CORPORATION-Two-RLL-ST506-412-driv-219.html (mentions a DEBUG Utility to access Low Level Format Program)

** Seems like I need to get dlgmaker.exe to make a Driver Disk ** (but this looks like a Virus/Trojan)
I have to be really careful. Many of these SO CALL DRIVER download places try to get you to install Crap. (Will use a spare JUNK PC for trying this stuff)

[wbrejnia]

TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE (Found some DISKS)

I gave up on finding Driver on the WEB.

So I decided to dig thru all the floppies and found these.

The one on the FAR right looks promising. Long Shot but keeping my fingers crossed.

[wbrejnia]

WD1002-27X HD Controller & Octagon ST-506 Hard Drive
 
 Comparing the info I have and the way things are connected, I'm 90% sure the cabling is correct.
 
 Here an update to all the specs I have.
 
 
 
 Next is the DOS driver investigation.