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Offline Pat the CatTopic starter

Question on Amiga HD controllers
« on: December 28, 2016, 04:16:12 PM »
I know you can get IDE-SD card and various forms of compact flash adaptors for the Amiga.

I was wondering what the limitations of IDE and SCSI controllers are with the Amiga? I would guess the low end would be a raw A600 IDE interface, then a A1200 with some fast RAM, then the A4000 IDE controller, and then third party and Commodore SCSI controllers, for transfer speed.

It's a complicated issue, but I was looking at what the max read and write speeds of controllers are, with a view of what is sensible to attempt when hacking SSD drives onto them.

There is a reason for exploring this, in that Amigas with MMUs can use paged hard drive space as fast RAM - in theory, if your controller can handle the speed, you could run MMU friendly apps of huge complexity, at pretty good execution speeds.

Or maybe the controllers themselves are too limited, and a reasonably quick SD card, says 40MB/S, is plenty good enough anyway and there is no point reinventing the wheel.

On the other hand, M-SATA to ZIF PATA convertors are pretty cheap, and it should be possible to hack a ZIF PATA onto an Amiga. Which might be worth it on a real A4000, but I'm a bit doubtful about what else.

An M-Sata to SCSI 50 pin Single ended could give quite a big boost to SCSI equipped Amigas. But haven't seen any kit that does that.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline kolla

Re: Question on Amiga HD controllers
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2016, 05:58:30 PM »
You are correct, the bottle necks are the controllers. Paging to disk (swapping) works well on SCSI systems, and there are SCSI-to-SATA adapters that can work much faster than any SCSI controller on any Amiga manage. I have replaced all my PATA drivers with SD-card adapters and mSATA-adapters lately.

ACard provide SCSI-SATA adapters:
http://www.acard.com/english/fb0101.jsp?ino=43&sino=45
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Pat the CatTopic starter

Re: Question on Amiga HD controllers
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 06:55:36 PM »
That's better than what I expected. Paged Ram from a single ended 50 pin working around 20MB/S is still very useful for very large applications, and that's what most Amiga SCSI controllers are limited to. I have no idea on that front, but it sounds right for SCSI-2.

I guess for the real faster interfaces you would need a Zorro III based Amiga and a whizzy SCSI controller. IIRC, some of the 3/4000 accelerator cards had such a beast fitted too. Could be wrong about that, but I guess a 32 bit DMA friendly card, and later Buster and DMAC chips might let you use some of the faster types of SCSI.

A lot of modern accelerators have way faster RAM access than that... so unless you have a very big application, requiring hundreds of software components, it's just plain unnecessary.

What applications was I thinking of? Well, smart robotics, actually. Cognition research would be closer.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline kolla

Re: Question on Amiga HD controllers
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 07:25:13 PM »
The fastest SCSI controllers are hands down those located on the accelerator boards, such as the NCR 53C770 based UW controllers on the CyberStorm boards, much faster than working over Zorro bus.

I have used swapping (http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/VMM_V3_3a) quite a lot, mostly when working with animations and sound.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 07:29:23 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kenny smith

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Re: Question on Amiga HD controllers
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 02:24:21 AM »
I am looking for a ide controller card for my amiga 2000, do anyone who have this?. I am looking for it. Can some one help me with this?, it got to have a floppy for the card to please. Can't pay much for it at all at ounce.
 

Offline kenny smith

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Re: Question on Amiga HD controllers
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 02:24:52 AM »
Quote from: kolla;818314
The fastest SCSI controllers are hands down those located on the accelerator boards, such as the NCR 53C770 based UW controllers on the CyberStorm boards, much faster than working over Zorro bus.

I have used swapping (http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/VMM_V3_3a) quite a lot, mostly when working with animations and sound.
I am looking for a ide controller card for my amiga 2000, do anyone who have this?. I am looking for it. Can some one help me with this?, it got to have a floppy for the card to please. Can't pay much for it at all at ounce.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Question on Amiga HD controllers
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 02:28:37 AM »
Quote from: kenny smith;818344
I am looking for a ide controller card for my amiga 2000, do anyone who have this?. I am looking for it. Can some one help me with this?, it got to have a floppy for the card to please. Can't pay much for it at all at ounce.

Try ebay or Amibay, or start your own thread here in the Marketplace section.  No need to spam unrelated threads.  :angryfire:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos