Amazing! New A500+ kit available at A1k!

[Iggy]

I really dont understand the anger about all this. I have nothing to do with the project at all. I just thought I would chime in that I will be receiving a pair to assemble.

Any site I have ever bought anything on requires registration of some kind to place an order. This is no different. You can literally register, go place the order, get the paypal payment link and be done. Its that simple.

Yeah, I guess my objections are overblown.
After all, we register users in our yahoo group for the Coco3 FPGA project, BUT we do distribute our code freely AND I don't understand the linkage between registration and board distribution unless they are planning to offer support.

[psxphill]

Your point? ROHS is pretty much required everywhere in commercial products, but as you've pointed out, this isn't a commercial product.

I personally think ROHS would disagree as you are giving them money. Although ROHS also covers equipment given away for free, you only have to make the equipment available (which they are).

However ROHS doesn't cover re-using equipment sold before 2006. MOS/CSG chips made today on the same process would fail ROHS, but the ones manufactured in the 80's and 90's are fine. I expect the PCB would be fine, or the PCB house would be out of business by now.

So I don't know what the fuss over ROHS is. They certainly haven't found a loop hole by only selling it on a1k.org.

As a spare part for an old computer, I don't think CE testing would be required either.

[kolla]

They offer support to each other on the forum, it's kinda implicit. A500+ schematics are not exactly rocket science, to make a replica of the board is not so hard, so why not do it yourself if you really want one?

[Iggy]

I personally think ROHS would disagree as you are giving them money. Although ROHS also covers equipment given away for free, you only have to make the equipment available (which they are).

However ROHS doesn't cover re-using equipment sold before 2006. MOS/CSG chips made today on the same process would fail ROHS, but the ones manufactured in the 80's and 90's are fine. I expect the PCB would be fine, or the PCB house would be out of business by now.

So I don't know what the fuss over ROHS is. They certainly haven't found a loop hole by only selling it on a1k.org.

As a spare part for an old computer, I don't think CE testing would be required either.

You really are overthinking this.
Reimbursement for personal expenses that not incurred by a business activity are hardly the purview of a regulatory agency.
And this is not a business.
As far as a1K.org, I couldn't care less what their position is.

[guest11527]

Your point? ROHS is pretty much required everywhere in commercial products, but as you've pointed out, this isn't a commercial product.
And a personal or community driven project doesn't preclude open distribution.

This is not the US here, where you could sell a product "as is", i.e. without offering a warranty, or any service around it. We are here in Germany, and special precautions must be taken if you bring (from within Germany) a product into the market. "Consumer protection" has a much higher value here than in the US.

In particular, there is also a law against "unfair competition" which brings you into the danger when sellling any goods that do not conform to regulations for whatever reason. Any potential competitor could sue you for such an attempt, which may become very costly. A "call to order" is a well-known instrument of lawers here in Germany to "earn" some additional money, even more so as even the first "call to order" is not *for free*. IOWs, if some greedy lawyer finds a page where a product is sold without all necessary regulations in place, this may become an expensive experience for you.

The simplest you can do is not to sell it as a product, but a small private series, as a hobby. As soon as you announce it on a web-page and make it accessible for everyone, you are entering a rather delicate terrain, so it's not done.

I'm not talking for anyone of a1k here, this is just my private statement, and I'm not a lawyer either, this is just my "common knowledge" and experience of what happens over here. I understand very well that such precautions are necessary, and I believe they are very much due to legal reasons rather than to stop anyone from buying the board (not to call it a "product" because that is something it cannot be).

This whole "only for our members" nonsense is childish.

"This is forbidden by law..."

Obfuscation, plain and simple.

No, you do not know German law, and German lawers in particular. Please understand. It's not the US system here. Registering on a1k costs you nothing.

[Iggy]

They offer support to each other on the forum, it's kinda implicit. A500+ schematics are not exactly rocket science, to make a replica of the board is not so hard, so why not do it yourself if you really want one?

That is a common perception, but the creation of board layouts from schematics is far from easy.
And it would hardly be necessary, as I've stated before, while bare boards would not be available, populated legacy boards are still possible to find.

[Acill]

Iggy, its not about getting a populated board. Its about the fun and challenge of building your own board and populating it yourself. I did an A1000 for someone awhile back this way which was also an a1k project. I was also going to do an A4000T they offered but ran into problems and sold most of the board and parts. Its all about the fun of it.

If you want an A500+ you can easily get one sure, but can you say you built it yourself and be proud of it? I love my 4000T now more than ever because of all the upgrades and enhancements to the board I have done myself. Its a skill I have worked a long time and very hard to build up and maintain. Doing something like this is just an awesome bonus of having that skill that I can do for someone else.

Heck I have an A500 now and don't need one, but I don't have an A500 I assembled from scratch! This one will go in a box frame and be mounted in my office when I complete it so I can show it off.

[Iggy]

The simplest you can do is not to sell it as a product, but a small private series, as a hobby...

But that IS what they are doing in this case Thomas.
So all the concern over ROHS is really undue.

And please don't appeal to me with the "we have superior regulations" crap.
Excessive regulatory BS like your "unfair competition" regulations are ludicrous.
And your so called superior consumer protection didn't stop Volkswagen from trying to cheat on the emissions controls of the cars you have been shipping us...which we caught.

Iggy, its not about getting a populated board. Its about the fun and challenge of building your own board and populating it yourself. I did an A1000 for someone awhile back this way which was also an a1k project. I was also going to do an A4000T they offered but ran into problems and sold most of the board and parts. Its all about the fun of it.

If you want an A500+ you can easily get one sure, but can you say you built it yourself and be proud of it? I love my 4000T now more than ever because of all the upgrades and enhancements to the board I have done myself. Its a skill I have worked a long time and very hard to build up and maintain. Doing something like this is just an awesome bonus of having that skill that I can do for someone else.

Heck I have an A500 now and don't need one, but I don't have an A500 I assembled from scratch! This one will go in a box frame and be mounted in my office when I complete it so I can show it off.

I get that.
I've been thinking about approaching the Apollo team on a project I and a few friends are building because our board has no video output.
And this 500+ board is something that could be soldered by the average individual.
The 500 and 2000 don't rely on a lot of surface mount crap (mostly through hole components).
In a way its a lot like a hobbyist board.
I do wonder why we aren't switching to 68HC000s for things like this though.
They are available at up to 20 MHz and 50% or higher overclocks are not uncommon.

[Acill]

I do wonder why we aren't switching to 68HC000s for things like this though.
They are available at up to 20 MHz and 50% or higher overclocks are not uncommon.

Compatibility is my guess, but it has been done. Take a loot at this thread.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=70936

[LoadWB]

Is it not possible to replace the DIP 68000 with an adapter consisting of a surface-mount 68HC000 and timing circuit, maybe even cache, something like the AdSpeed?

EDIT: hehehe Acill answered me before I got my post in.  I need to stop opening tabs and reading them later.

[guest11527]

But that IS what they are doing in this case Thomas.
So all the concern over ROHS is really undue.

And please don't appeal to me with the "we have superior regulations" crap.
Excessive regulatory BS like your "unfair competition" regulations are ludicrous.
And your so called superior consumer protection didn't stop Volkswagen from trying to cheat on the emissions controls of the cars you have been shipping us...which we caught.

I don't care what you think about German laws. It's another discussion. No matter what you think: In Germany, German laws apply. And no matter whether you like them or not: You have to be super-careful here if you are selling products. You have to provide services to the customer, and you have to be in fair competition and must follow certain regulations.

[Rotzloeffel]

But that IS what they are doing in this case Thomas.
So all the concern over ROHS is really undue.

They sell a naked Board...... nothing else..... you also can buy some old spareparts to build it.

And please don't appeal to me with the "we have superior regulations" crap.

That bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!...sorry

[orange]

..
What should I do with it?
The board makes itself good as a wall decoration. Or as a replacement board for a battery-eaten original board. Maybe you can exchange it with a pair of socks.
..

a-ha, its true, Germans are 'The least funny people in the world' !

[kolla]

Well, the US will find out how funny the Germans can be with their president Drumpf in January

[David Wright]

Well, the US will find out how funny the Germans can be with their president Drumpf in January

How so?

[Iggy]

Well, the US will find out how funny the Germans can be with their president Drumpf in January

I fully agree, he's been good for nothing except comedy so far.
Although once in office we might get some horror with our comedy. :hammer:

They sell a naked Board...... nothing else..... you also can buy some old spareparts to build it....

Ah, so as a bare board, ROHS is pretty much irrelevant.

Although I have to wonder how the makers of the mostly finished Kiwi 68008 board get around the ROHS regulations (they use old components like V9990 video display processors).