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Author Topic: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?  (Read 4353 times)

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Offline DandyTopic starter

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More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« on: November 11, 2016, 07:33:40 AM »
Since 1997, I'm 'proud owner' of a towered Amiga 4000 with CyberstormPPC card, which is still in use.

For a while, I also had a CyberVisionPPC graphics card, but the onboard video ram size of just 8 mB quickly turned out to be insufficient and so I exchanged it for a Voodoo4 PCI graca in the Mediator PCI busboard.

But meanwhile, also the 128 mB 64 Bit wide FastRAM on the CSPPC are too little.

But there exists - at least for WIntel-PCs - the possibility to 'alienate' the GPU and also the graphics memory on the graca and use it for calculations and as working memory, if I got that right.

The CyberVisionPPC is connected to the CyberStormPPC via a "25 mHz local PCI bus" and has "8 mB of 64 Bit wide SGRAM" onboard.

:idea:
Now I was wondering if it could theoretically be possible to make a small harware add-on with - lets say - 128 mB (or more?) of 64 Bit wide SGRAM onboard and to connect this to the „25 mHz local PCI bus“ on the CSPPC with the apropriate plug and provide this additional Ram `somehow to the AmigaOS?

Ram expansion boards like the ZorRAM can only be used for "swapping" - perhaps could more RAM be provided as working memory this way - like on WIntel PCs? It has often been raved about the fast linking of the CVPPC to the CSPPC via this "local PCI bus" - it should somehow be possible to capitalise on it, shouldn't it?
All the best,

Dandy

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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 08:36:12 AM »
I don't know about adding memory in the way you described, but there's Amiga users out there who have added more than 1GB of memory to their Amiga's through various combinations of other cards. I remember seeing a screenshot of one a while back, the number across the top of the Workbench screen looked so long, lol. ;)

In any case, you're certainly not limited to 128MB, if you have the right budget ($$$).
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Offline wawrzon

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 09:18:30 AM »
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know about adding memory in the way you described, but there's Amiga users out there who have added more than 1GB of memory to their Amiga's through various combinations of other cards. I remember seeing a screenshot of one a while back, the number across the top of the Workbench screen looked so long, lol.  


no, he obviously wants it via csppc expansion slot this time, because he already opened other threads on similar topics.

@dandy

you are reffering to a solution similar to alienating rtg ram on pci video cards available via mediator, though those cards are available via zorro memory spacew, while cybervisionppc must be available within 128mb cpu expansion window on a4k memory map, so it wouldnt solve anything, even if an extension laike that was available. the solution would rather be a completely new redesigned motherboard without such bottlenecks. you may wait for vampire standalone or better ask such questions directly on a1k.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 09:30:54 AM »
I might be mistaken, but the only seperation you can do with 32bit x86 machines gfx card ram is to, in total (system ram and GPU ram) go beyond the 4gig addressable memory. Typically 4 gig would be the limit, so system ram would shrink in favor of the GPU.
With things like pae however some systems went beyond this limit.
This of course isn't required for the vast majority of hardware these days as most things are 64bit.

In regards to csppc/a4k, its tricky because of the (frankly crap) way memory is addressed. There's only 128meg space addressable to the CPU. The space directly above this is used for things like Zorro (hence things like zorram).
Your idea, could in theory work, but I don't think it'd be much faster (possibly slower) than zorram, as while the bus is 25mhz, and the ram 64bit, the bus (correct me if I'm wrong someone) is only 32bit.

There's also the fact that the csppc firmware is hardcoded with the 128meg limit. This has been patched before trying to bypass the restrictions, but it simply doesn't work due to other hardware limitations.

Long story short, there's simply no way to get more than 128meg system ram. At least not in a way that won't cripple performance.

p.s. take this with a grain of salt. I'm going by memory here. While details may not be exact the crux is, I believe, pretty accurate.
While not ideal something like VMM or Gigamem might be your best options for the moment.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 09:39:11 AM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2016, 10:22:23 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;816324

There's also the fact that the csppc firmware is hardcoded with the 128meg limit.


according to whats i been told on a1k, its not hardcoded on any accelerator firmware but restricted by a memory map implemented in a particular amiga chipset. ergo, you would have to modify that chipset in order to implement another memory map. so except some simple hardware hack is possible, which i doubt, it amounts to building a whole new amiga compatible hardware.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2016, 10:48:30 AM »
I was under the impression it was both hardcoded in firmware in addition to the memory map. I vaguely recall reading about someone patching the firmware in an attempt to bypass this.
Its quite possible I'm wrong about this though.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Acill

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2016, 12:17:56 PM »
I have nearly 1GB of RAM on my 4000T. The new version of OS4.1 classic will address ZIII RAM cards as system RAM on systems with ZorRAM and BigRAM+ cards soon if not already. My CSPPC has been upgraded to a 420MHZ clocked one and I have a Rev 6 060 running at 75Mhz currently. I dont like OS4 on this machine mostly because of the previous RAM limitations, but it does run very well even at that. It completly screams on 3.9 and I even have mosly true color icons from the OS4.1 set that Ken did awhile back.

Here is my system conig:
CSPPC with 128MB
2X BigRAM+ boards at 512MB
16MB on 4000T
Radeon 9250 with 256MB, using 200 as system RAM through mediator

The key is using your CSPPC SCSI with a, ACARD IDE to SCSI adapter on it and using a fast SSD drive. Its amazing.

I also have kicked everything into fastram I can after boot up since I have so much as far as Amiga RAM goes.

Magnetic has seen my system run and can tell you how fast it feels too ;)
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Offline amiadudeorwat

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2016, 12:35:32 PM »
Yes it is possible to add additional system memory to the CSPPC local PCI slot.   The GREX when connected to the CSPPC adds GFX card memory (like a Voodoo), however it does not provide the software feature like Mediator does to add it as system RAM.  So two problems with this as there is a missing software feature to remap PCI memory (really Zorro memory) into system memory and you need a GREX busboard.  

Since the PCI connector on the CSPPC is undocumented it is unlikely someone is going to reverse engineer and design a Radeon adapter for the CSPPC.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:38:53 PM by amiadudeorwat »
 

Offline nicholas

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2016, 01:30:10 PM »
Quote from: Acill;816328
I have nearly 1GB of RAM on my 4000T. The new version of OS4.1 classic will address ZIII RAM cards as system RAM on systems with ZorRAM and BigRAM+ cards soon if not already. My CSPPC has been upgraded to a 420MHZ clocked one and I have a Rev 6 060 running at 75Mhz currently. I dont like OS4 on this machine mostly because of the previous RAM limitations, but it does run very well even at that. It completly screams on 3.9 and I even have mosly true color icons from the OS4.1 set that Ken did awhile back.

Here is my system conig:
CSPPC with 128MB
2X BigRAM+ boards at 512MB
16MB on 4000T
Radeon 9250 with 256MB, using 200 as system RAM through mediator

The key is using your CSPPC SCSI with a, ACARD IDE to SCSI adapter on it and using a fast SSD drive. Its amazing.

I also have kicked everything into fastram I can after boot up since I have so much as far as Amiga RAM goes.

Magnetic has seen my system run and can tell you how fast it feels too ;)


You might want to ask Karlos if he'd give you his 3.9 setup. The whole OS runs from a RAD: in Fastram. So fast you wouldn't believe it's 25 year old hardware. :)
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Offline Acill

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 12:35:45 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;816332
You might want to ask Karlos if he'd give you his 3.9 setup. The whole OS runs from a RAD: in Fastram. So fast you wouldn't believe it's 25 year old hardware. :)


How do I get in touch, would love to try that!
Proud Retired Navy Chief!

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Need Amiga recap or other services in the US? Visit my website at http://www.acill.com and take a look or on facebook at http://facebook.com/acillclassics
 

Offline nyteschayde

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Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2016, 05:51:07 AM »
How did you overclock it to 420Mhz?! Can the BPPC be overclocked like this?
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Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2016, 06:38:24 AM »
I'd hazard a guess its a 300, 333, or 366 mhz 604 set to 84*5, or 70*6 or similar.
Bppcs probably can't reach the same level because the 603 default clocks don't go as high, but you can reach around the 300-380mhz level by replacing the CPU with a faster one and then over clocking.

Sidebar, but I've gotta ask. Is that a man or woman in your avatar pic? I've been trying to work it out for a while now.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 06:42:45 AM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline hese7

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2016, 08:00:31 AM »
Quote from: nyteschayde;816357
How did you overclock it to 420Mhz?!


Like this:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?87713-Cyberstorm-PPC-repaired-and-supercharged

Swap the PPC processor with a 400MHz part, put a 60MHz oscillator and set the PPC clock multiplier to 7x.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2016, 09:34:50 AM »
Is there a 7x multiplier by default? I'd always though 5.5 was the highest, with 6x being available when a lower multiplier was used (2.5) in conjunction with a higher clocked CPU (ala amd k6-2 at between 400 and 500mhz being used in some non super socket 7 boards).
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Acill

Re: More than 128 mB on a CSPPC?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2016, 01:35:42 AM »
Its a 400MHZ CPU that replaces my 233. Overclocked just a tad to 420
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