X5000 systems

[Iggy]

But what is missing? you still havent answered.


But then again, if you are tired of amiga NG talks on an amiga site, then why are you here?


I will hold you to that promis, but does that mean, we wont see you before those 12 years?

+3! :hammer:

Like hard work to create the limited runs of this stuff should be discounted because it can't compete with mass marketed commodity crap.

Honestly, I wish this guy would go back to using his Windows box, leave us alone, and STFU.

"I can upload my own multi-layer PCB designs and have them fabricated,  produced, and shipped to me in a matter of days.  There are quite a few  companies that do this routinely."

Gee Mr. Wizard, I've been doing that since the days when it was actually difficult to source a board manufacturer.
Glad to see you think its a accomplishment these days.

Now try to design a multi-layer board that has components that operate at high speed and have it function correctly when built.
Your dismissive attitude show you don't know the challenges involved there.

And as far as my intellect goes, at this point, with over 200 college credits and multiple degrees, I don't really care what YOUR judgement is, because you're a dork.
We don't need sophisticated verbiage for that assessment.
Your going to be negative without addressing the holes in your argument so...

... that is why you have windows and mac. If all you do is stick to mainstream, then what you end up with is nothing special.

And again I ask you, why are you even here? If all you want to do is complain, then take it some where else.

Good summary of this part of the discussion.

[OlafS3]

For me, its the persistence needed to see the project through with such a small market and limited resources.
Especially when faced with naysayers like yourself.

Then there's the fact that its actually powerful enough to run real software, while being based on an ISA that is no longer commonly seen in desktops.

Go ahead and crap on the idea if you want, but impressed is EXACTLY the word I'd use.

thank you sir

instead naysayer you could say "normal people" because everyone out there will ask "why on earth have you spend so much money on the device". If you do not believe me try it out in real world. In the world there are billions of "naysayers".

BTW you have already ordered your X5000? For some reasons lots of people are praising hardware they do not use themselves

[OlafS3]

If industry professionals come to my house for parties and are impressed with my peg2 they will be really impressed with x5000 its EXOTIC COMPUTING

if you would buy a oldtimer you would propably have the same effect. It is "what is that?" effect but that is soon over. People will go home but would never buy such a device themselves.

[OlafS3]

But what is missing? you still havent answered.


But then again, if you are tired of amiga NG talks on an amiga site, then why are you here?


I will hold you to that promis, but does that mean, we wont see you before those 12 years?

amiga.org is a AmigaOS 4.X forum recently? Trevor claimed different...

[Iggy]

thank you sir

instead naysayer you could say "normal people" because everyone out there will ask "why on earth have you spend so much money on the device". If you do not believe me try it out in real world. In the world there are billions of "naysayers".

BTW you have already ordered your X5000? For some reasons lots of people are praising hardware they do not use themselves

I discussed it with the owner of AmigaOnTheLake the first night the system was listed as available, but I may wait until the P5040 version is available.
Then again, I may not as I have the funds saved for it already (and I'm itching to have one).

Either way, yes, I'm buying one.

And from that  vendor.

If you advocate the development, but don't support it, well that won't help the manufacturer.

[Arnuph1s]

It’s obvious that there are two entrenched points of view in this thread. I don’t think either are wrong as it’s all about personal perspective and the place the system has in your life.

My take on this is as follows. We all love the Amiga (hopefully) but the fact of the matter is that the original hardware is getting older and older and we have pretty much wrung everything out of it that is technically possible. Commodore is gone and we have no other companies of that size producing new machines. So unless we just want to be a nostalgic bunch standing over our old classic machines as they slowly die and remembering the glory days then there needs to be something new to pour our energies into. This is where the NG machines and the new OS come in.

Are they behind the PC/Mac Platforms of today? Sure. Are they priced too high based on their actual specs? Possibly. Is the OS still a work in progress? I’d say yes but then isn’t any OS? OSX and Windows have regular updates after all. The only reason OS4 doesn’t is probably down to resources. As for the pricing, well A-EON has to pay the production costs and have some financial reward for all their hard work. Love of the platform can only get you so far.

I personally see the X5000 as a hobby machine as it stands. It could never replace my PC or Mac in its current state but I still think it’s pretty cool. Some people spend a fortune on their hobbies so if I had the disposable income I would probably get one and not regret it since it is fun to play around with and try to get things working.

I currently cannot take it seriously as a replacement for my every day machine though. But then that’s because I need access to Windows for gaming and Office for work. It would be too underpowered for my video/music network steaming needs.  I also need Logic Studio so it couldn’t replace my Mac either. I can’t watch Bluray movies or probably use Netflix on it. Yes I could run Linux on it but then I can run Linux on my laptop and that would run it faster. So for me, it’s a luxury item. However that’s just me. Other people have different computing needs and for them, this machine will do everything they need and more power to them.

At the end of the day let’s salute the hard work and determination of everyone behind the hardware and software of the NG platform. It may not be everything to everyone but it’s certainly better than nothing. It’s also entirely possible that in 12 months time I may be posting from the perspective of an X5000 user .

[magnetic]

Of course im not being sarcastic, im a producer in hollywood how about you? You think im just making things up? im speaking from experience. one of my old customers still uses amigas and he is a senior project manager at Sony 3d labs for example.

[gertsy]

Of course im not being sarcastic, im a producer in hollywood how about you? You think im just making things up? im speaking from experience. one of my old customers still uses amigas and he is a senior project manager at Sony 3d labs for example.

Hey @magnetic what does he(ur old customer) use the Amiga's for?

@arnuph1s :  Agree with your overall point, but; there are way more then 2 points of view. :)Entrenched or not. Subjective judgement, abuse and bullying, some logical reasoning, plus passion. Viva la difference I say.

[Hans_]

Being a cheerleader for Hyperion isn't going to get you a better OS4.  How many years ago did they promise to deliver multi-processor support and stable USB?  I think I've been hearing that since 2004.  Hans has made great strides in the 3D graphics department but the Amiga is still years behind other operating systems in graphics and the areas I mentioned.  If you settle for mediocrity, then that's what you'll end up with.  What's wrong with demanding a better product and calling someone out for broken or unfulfilled promises?

Being enthusiastic and enjoying what you've got isn't the same as settling for mediocrity. I met people at AmiWest who were both enthusiastic about my work (i.e., Warp3D Nova) and asked about possible improvements to the graphics drivers. Talking with people who are enthusiastic and appreciative of your work is very motivating.

It's also possible to be impressed with what someone has created even if it can't match the latest state of the art in either price or performance. The Vampire FPGA accelerator can't compete with the latest x64/ARM devices, but seeing it in action was impressive. Sam's A500 (+Vampire) was definitely the fastest A500 I've ever seen.

Hans

[Iggy]

And for that matter we're not as entrenched as we used to be.
I'm completely impressed with Hans' work, I occasionally exchange messages with Mark "Bigfoot" Olsen - one of the MorphOS developers who among other things works on video drivers, and I intend to buy an X5000 which supports BOTH OS4 and MorphOS.
Currently we are seeing a nice group of developments become available in multiple areas of our community.

Not bad for a 'dead', 'obsolete', 'hobbyist' system.

[Debaser]

...and I intend to buy an X5000 which supports BOTH OS4 and MorphOS.
Currently we are seeing a nice group of developments become available in multiple areas of our community.

Not bad for a 'dead', 'obsolete', 'hobbyist' system.

I'm right there with you Iggy. I hope to have my X5000 system in the next couple of weeks. It is a hobby for me and I am looking forward to finally getting some new hardware for  AOS 4/Mophos(hopefully) and Linux - it's going to be a blast.

[gertsy]

.....

Not bad for a 'dead', 'obsolete', 'hobbyist' system.

Glad to see Iggy, Agree 100%. Pretty good in fact.

[magnetic]

Do you have a source for this information?
While I would appreciate the lifting of the memory limit within WinUAE, I can't believe it is true. In the past Hyperion always was against it. And A-EON could fear it was bad for their business.

In this case its very Good for Aeon.. stay tuned my friend. I got it from the "horses mouth" as it were at amiwest. Now that the X5000 project is finally off the ground look for exciting things to follow.

[JimmiG]

It’s obvious that there are two entrenched points of view in this thread. I don’t think either are wrong as it’s all about personal perspective and the place the system has in your life.

My take on this is as follows. We all love the Amiga (hopefully) but the fact of the matter is that the original hardware is getting older and older and we have pretty much wrung everything out of it that is technically possible. Commodore is gone and we have no other companies of that size producing new machines. So unless we just want to be a nostalgic bunch standing over our old classic machines as they slowly die and remembering the glory days then there needs to be something new to pour our energies into. This is where the NG machines and the new OS come in.

Are they behind the PC/Mac Platforms of today? Sure. Are they priced too high based on their actual specs? Possibly. Is the OS still a work in progress? I’d say yes but then isn’t any OS? OSX and Windows have regular updates after all. The only reason OS4 doesn’t is probably down to resources. As for the pricing, well A-EON has to pay the production costs and have some financial reward for all their hard work. Love of the platform can only get you so far.

I personally see the X5000 as a hobby machine as it stands. It could never replace my PC or Mac in its current state but I still think it’s pretty cool. Some people spend a fortune on their hobbies so if I had the disposable income I would probably get one and not regret it since it is fun to play around with and try to get things working.

I currently cannot take it seriously as a replacement for my every day machine though. But then that’s because I need access to Windows for gaming and Office for work. It would be too underpowered for my video/music network steaming needs.  I also need Logic Studio so it couldn’t replace my Mac either. I can’t watch Bluray movies or probably use Netflix on it. Yes I could run Linux on it but then I can run Linux on my laptop and that would run it faster. So for me, it’s a luxury item. However that’s just me. Other people have different computing needs and for them, this machine will do everything they need and more power to them.

At the end of the day let’s salute the hard work and determination of everyone behind the hardware and software of the NG platform. It may not be everything to everyone but it’s certainly better than nothing. It’s also entirely possible that in 12 months time I may be posting from the perspective of an X5000 user .

I agree. These are hobbyist/enthusiast machines and will likely never be anything more. If the companies involved play their cards right, the market (and usefulness) could grow, sure, but realistically, it will never be a significant player and will never be able to fully replace a Mac or Windows/Linux PC. It will always be grouped together with other obscure systems in the "Others" category in the "Desktop OS market share" pie chart.

As with other hobbies, you can't base your purchasing decisions on practicality. Some people collect old fuel guzzling muscle cars, when a cheap efficient compact car would probably be enough for their needs. Some collect old vinyl records and buy expensive record players to relive their youth, when they could just get a Spotify subscription. Some buy tons of expensive sticks made of plastic and metal called "golf clubs", others buy expensive guns with the only purpose of firing them at paper targets at a shooting range.

I've still got my trusty old A1200/030 but other than to see that it still works, I've had no reason to fire it up in years/decades and haven't used it as my main computer since ~1997. I just can't see myself investing into that platform with accelerators, flicker fixers, CF flash readers etc. WinUAE runs faster and is more convenient for scratching the "retro itch". However I still fondly remember the Amiga, and a new, Amiga-like system that I can use for some day-to-day tasks would certainly be interesting. Just the fact that these systems are still being made, decades after Commodore went bust makes me happy for the people who use and enjoy them still.

For now, the price of the X5000 is a bit too much to swallow for me personally, for such a secondary/hobby system. However I could definitely see myself picking up a Tabor and perhaps a Mac Mini G4 for Morphos in the not so distant future. Not as a replacement for my Core i7 PC, but for the simple reason that it would be fun to play around with something different than the usual Windows and Linux, with which I spend 8 hours a day at work plus countless hours of my spare time.