Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version  (Read 5303 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pyrre

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2016, 06:44:35 PM »
Ain't it time to stop throwing thrash at each other?

I serially thought the Amiga community was just that, a community where people with similar interests could share knowledge and experience with other hobbyists...
This being said. If someone are sitting on copyrights and want royalties for them, ain't it their problem in collecting them?

As a hobbyist myself i think it is just fair to take payment for the work i do. And if i do work in someone else territory, it is their choice to collect on any claims regarding copyrights or not.

As far as the amiga goes. Ain't it time to realize it is quite DEAD in development. Dead in the matter of, there are no big companies developing the main platform any further.
Commodore is bust, Escom is bust and there are no one else to take control of the future direction. And there are no advancements in the cpu systems for the platform.
The only progress made in the last 15 years are made of hobbyist dedicating their spare time to develop expansions to an aging old hardware platform.

It really saddens me reading all this hostility from the members of a community i really enjoyed and loved some years back...

As for this adapter of Cosmos goes. If i understand correctly it will boost the performance of a system made for the 040. Ok it wont be as fast as a full blown 060 system. But who cares, for real who cares? the system was not designed that way in the start.....
If it makes a good system faster, ain't it worth it?

And as far as taxes goes...
If i understand correctly, Cosmos is from France.
And like most European countries you are actually allowed to have a hobby, and you are allowed to make money of it. At least up to a certain point.
In my country, Norway you are allowed to make up to NOK 4000,- on a hobby before you are obliged to pay tax of it. That is the equivalent of 500 EUR or nearly 600 USD. (however, if you are a collector. You can make an unlimited amount of money on a sale without paying tax)
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2016, 08:41:10 PM »
Quote from: pyrre;810728
As a hobbyist myself i think it is just fair to take payment for the work i do. And if i do work in someone else territory, it is their choice to collect on any claims regarding copyrights or not.
If you take somebody else's work, you need follow the rules its creators have set. Like it or not.

Quote from: pyrre;810728
The only progress made in the last 15 years are made of hobbyist dedicating their spare time to develop expansions to an aging old hardware platform.
And Hobbyists do not need to respect copyright?


Quote from: pyrre;810728
As for this adapter of Cosmos goes. If i understand correctly it will boost the performance of a system made for the 040. Ok it wont be as fast as a full blown 060 system. But who cares, for real who cares? the system was not designed that way in the start.....
If it makes a good system faster, ain't it worth it?
Maybe. But then again, if I offer my work, I should really state clearly what it does and what it does not. I cannot sell a work - for money - under false or incomplete claims. Fair is fair. I need to state what it does, and what it does not. I cannot say "Replaces a 68040 by a 68060" because exactly that it cannot do. I can say "Ok, couple of drawbacks: Either use a 68LC060, no FPU, or you need to find some other means to get the machine working, unfortunately I cannot provide binaries due to copyright reasons", or "I can provide binaries because I bought a license for 1€ you need to pay on top". That would be all ok.

Otherwise, if I as an end user would buy it, and would install it, and would see my machine crashing, I would honestly feel being ripped off. Even more so if there is no warranty.

Thus, to come back to your initial question. "Ain't it worth?", I can only say that in order to estimate the value of a product, I need to know what it does, its advantages but also its drawbacks.

That's not what happens here, and that is what *saddens me*. It looks to me like a rip-off of users, of users unaware of the technical problems such an adapter creates, and unaware of it being (potentially) dependent on a pirated piece of software if you want to avoid its drawbacks partially.

Quote from: pyrre;810728
If i understand correctly, Cosmos is from France.
And like most European countries you are actually allowed to have a hobby, and you are allowed to make money of it. At least up to a certain point.
Indeed, *up to a certain point*. Given the amount of stuff Cosmos sells, it seems not too unlikely to me that he is beyond this certain point. He seems to make a living from selling stuff here, and on ebay, stuff with questionable quality, and of questionable source, with questionable statements on its value.

That's not what I consider a fair deal for Amiga users, leave alone for the people that do pay their taxes - and somebody has to say.
 

Offline pyrre

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2016, 09:07:16 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;810732
GWT..... and somebody has to say.
Seems like you have taken it personally to do so..
Why?

To be honest i could not care less about copyrights on a product of any kind that has long since lived its life.
Who are still alive to claim the copyrights?
If you are talking about the 060.library, who owns the original license?

Today, 50EUR for a piece of hardware of any kind is considered pocket change. You barely cover the cost of production.

And why do you take it so personal about someone elses copyright claim about the darn library? What is in it for you? really?
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

Offline pyrre

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2016, 10:07:03 PM »
@ Cosmos

You don't happen to have an A2000(rev. 6.2 or newer) motherboard for sale?
Or know of anyone?
I want to put my fusion to use, and it wont work in the rev 4.0 MB
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

Offline eliyahu

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 1220
  • Country: us
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by eliyahu
    • eliyahu.org
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2016, 10:16:18 PM »
@thread

nothing wrong with argument, but no more name-calling, please. :)

-- eliyahu
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here."
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 12:15:50 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;810732
That's not what happens here, and that is what *saddens me*. It looks to me like a rip-off of users, of users unaware of the technical problems such an adapter creates

I wouldn't buy a Honda and expect it to perform like a Ferrari.  But maybe I just assume that the technical knowledge of an Amiga user is well above that of your "average Joe" computer user, lol.  :lol:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline paul1981

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 12:57:01 AM »
I'll say this, I think this whole argument is disrespectful - A fellow Amiga user has passed away and I think you chaps should take a step back and think about the things that are truly important in life.
 

Offline amiadudeorwat

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2016, 02:36:41 AM »
Quote from: paul1981;810750
I'll say this, I think this whole argument is disrespectful - A fellow Amiga user has passed away and I think you chaps should take a step back and think about the things that are truly important in life.

I agree, the most important question I think that Cosmos raised is:  Thor are you a member of the Illuminati or the Knights Templar, and if so:
1)  How many spells per day can you cast?
2)  Is that from Divine or Magic spheres?
3)  How many proficiencies per level do you get?  
4)  What is your THAC0 looking like at your level?
 

Offline WeiXing3D

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 407
    • Show only replies by WeiXing3D
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 02:41:17 AM »
Man, I wish I had more knowledge and experience working with Amiga hardware (A3000 with A3640) to buy your chip adapter. Keep up your good work.
Amiga 1200 fully loaded by Aclii.
AmigaONE X5000 with OS4.1 FE
FPGA Arcade board in miniITX case with AmigaOS3.9 and WB 3.1.
MorphOS 3.9 in Mac Mini G4 1.5GHz, PowerBook & Power Mac G5
Acer Aspire One with AROS Icaros Desktop 2.1.1 &
MiST FPGA Minimig Amiga AGA Workbench 3.9 PFS3 configuration.
 

Offline amiadudeorwat

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 03:16:01 AM »
The 040-060 adapter by Mozart is quite a nice little upgrade if you can find an 060 at a reasonable price.

Thor does bring up an important point that Cosmos is selling someone else's design which happens to be open-sourced.  For the price that Cosmos is charging it's more or less just his labor to assemble the board which is a reasonable, not-scalping price.  The PCBs and components are easily $25 USD.  So if Cosmos is charging 25-30EUR for his labor to assemble the device, I can't really see that is profiteering or scalping.  
The adapter usually takes someone at least an hour to assemble if you have some skill at soldering.

The exec.library patch that Cosmos hands out was developed by Speedgeek and Speedgeek specifically gifted this code to Cosmos to use as he sees fit.  Cosmos was originally just handing out the .pch file for users to apply to their own exec.library.  

The patched exec.library can be burnt to a custom kickstart if someone knows how to do that.  Assuming the user is not duplicating their kickstart and just fixing a bug or oversight in exec.library I don't see a problem with that.  The patched exec.library can also be dropped in Deneb ROM space or possibly in an eflash or a kickflash.

There are certain situations where someone might own an 060-capable board that currently has an 040 and be able to run that board *faster* and more stably than it was set to true 060 mode.  For example if you had an 060 capable board that when it was clocked at 66MHz it became unstable with an 060 in 060 mode, if you used that same board as an 040 board-with the 060 adapter at 33MHz, the board would still clock the memory at 33MHz and may end up being stable running the 060 at 66MHz where it might not be stable in 060 mode running at 66MHz.   Same for an 060 at 80MHz, run the board at 40MHz, memory and onboard logic running at 40MHz, but the 060 runs at 80MHz.
 

Offline pyrre

Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2016, 06:50:40 AM »
Quote from: amiadudeorwat;810761
The 040-060 adapter by Mozart is quite a nice little upgrade if you can find an 060 at a reasonable price.

Thor does bring up an important point that Cosmos is selling someone else's design which happens to be open-sourced.  For the price that Cosmos is charging it's more or less just his labor to assemble the board which is a reasonable, not-scalping price.  The PCBs and components are easily $25 USD.  So if Cosmos is charging 25-30EUR for his labor to assemble the device, I can't really see that is profiteering or scalping.  
The adapter usually takes someone at least an hour to assemble if you have some skill at soldering.
That was my point. the pricing of the adapter ain't that much of a deal.

Quote from: amiadudeorwat;810761
The exec.library patch that Cosmos hands out was developed by Speedgeek and Speedgeek specifically gifted this code to Cosmos to use as he sees fit.  Cosmos was originally just handing out the .pch file for users to apply to their own exec.library.  

The patched exec.library can be burnt to a custom kickstart if someone knows how to do that.  Assuming the user is not duplicating their kickstart and just fixing a bug or oversight in exec.library I don't see a problem with that.  The patched exec.library can also be dropped in Deneb ROM space or possibly in an eflash or a kickflash.
I have no clue of this. But IMHO if anyone makes a patch to an existing library and instead chose to deliver prepatched files. what is really the difference, i cant see the reason for the complaints on this matter....

Quote from: amiadudeorwat;810761
There are certain situations where someone might own an 060-capable board that currently has an 040 and be able to run that board *faster* and more stably than it was set to true 060 mode.  For example if you had an 060 capable board that when it was clocked at 66MHz it became unstable with an 060 in 060 mode, if you used that same board as an 040 board-with the 060 adapter at 33MHz, the board would still clock the memory at 33MHz and may end up being stable running the 060 at 66MHz where it might not be stable in 060 mode running at 66MHz.   Same for an 060 at 80MHz, run the board at 40MHz, memory and onboard logic running at 40MHz, but the 060 runs at 80MHz.
A better detailed point i was trying to make. It would still be e good upgrade from a stock 040 system.

Id love to test this on my fusion. But i have no A2000 motherboard that can run the fusion. only got two rev 4.0 boards....
Amiga 1200 Tower Os 3.9
BPPC 603e+ 040-25/200, 256MBram, BVIsionPPC, Indivision AGA MK2.
Amiga 2000 (rev 4.0) Os 1.2/1.3
2088 bridgeboard, 2MB ram card, 2091 SCSI.
Amiga 500+ Os 2.1
Derringer 030, 32MBram, Buddha in sidecar, Indivision ECS.
Amiga CD32
Video decoder
 

Offline jltursan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Posts: 77
    • Show only replies by jltursan
    • https://sites.google.com/site/msxpage/
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2016, 07:49:21 AM »
Quote from: WeiXing3D;810757
Man, I wish I had more knowledge and experience working with Amiga hardware (A3000 with A3640) to buy your chip adapter. Keep up your good work.

It's not a hard task to build this setup, AFAIK and just from my real experience it involves the following :

- The A3000 must work at 25Mhz. Mine was a 16Mhz model; but I overclocked it time ago so no problem here.
- The best KS in terms of compatibility is 3.1 (of course!); so upgrade is a must.
- You'll need to make a hole in the FDD plate. The CPU tower is taller now. The right FDD must be placed at the left.
- You can't easily use a full 060 (needs a library patched, the one that caused all that fuss in the thread). I opted from the beginning for an EC model, although cool I don't really need FPU and this way I'm avoiding problems about any legal status.

All worked great and I must say I'm happy with the adapter. I think Cosmos always stated from the beginning the drawbacks of the product. Looking for info before a purchase is always a great idea, the lower RAM bus performance is a well-known problem; but as has been already stated, it's absolutely impossible to find a full 060 accelerator for A3000. I already have one in my A1200 and paid a fortune, I don't want to sell one of my kidneys for another one.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 08:06:50 AM by jltursan »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2016, 08:28:18 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;810747
I wouldn't buy a Honda and expect it to perform like a Ferrari.  But maybe I just assume that the technical knowledge of an Amiga user is well above that of your "average Joe" computer user, lol.  :lol:

That's the problem. *You* probably know that, and you probably know the limitations. But you cannot assume that the average user does.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2016, 08:32:39 AM »
Quote from: WeiXing3D;810757
Man, I wish I had more knowledge and experience working with Amiga hardware (A3000 with A3640) to buy your chip adapter. Keep up your good work.

"Good work" as in "taking somebody else's results and sell them"? Be serious. If you want to provide credits, address who earns the credits.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2016, 08:50:32 AM »
Quote from: pyrre;810734
Seems like you have taken it personally to do so..
Why?
Because here a product is sold, with certain drawbacks that are not clearly announced to the average user. This is not your "make your 040 board a 060 board adapter", as claimed. If I would just buy this product, and install it as advertized, I would get just a crash. Plus, even when installed with a proper processor (i.e. without an FPU), it will not perform as good as a native 68060/50Mhz design. Instead, its creator tries to cheat away with some "chip ram bandwidth" numbers that are complete bogus for the purpose of the evaluation of the board.

Do you call that "good business practise"?

If you sell a product, you'd better call your customers what it does and what it does not.

Quote from: pyrre;810734
And why do you take it so personal about someone elses copyright claim about the darn library? What is in it for you? really?
I do not care about my 68060.library here, really. That's provided under the license terms it came with, free of charge, for everyone. Download it from Aminet, be happy. That's all use within the license, so that'll be fine. *That* is not my problem.
 

Offline roomeo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 35
    • Show only replies by roomeo
Re: For sale : new ready built 040/060 adapter two stages version
« Reply #29 from previous page: July 08, 2016, 09:15:08 AM »
@Thomas

Geez man, give it a rest.

Every bit of information of the 040/060 adapter is out in the open, and i dont agree with your claim that Cosmos is hiding information to his buyers. Go attac IComp regarding hiding information instead if this is your life mission.

About Cosmos making a profit of others work. I really dont see this argument either. The 040/060 adapter is opensource and everybody is free to make one. If i want to pay a friend for making it for me i really dont see the fuzz. I paid a dude money for making an IDE cable for me once. Is he stealing/profiting of the original IDE cable designers also? 50 EUR for his adapter is a very reasonable price thinking about the time i would spend making it myself. You would probably disagree, but if the adapter dont work, i would think Cosmos would provide good support, and if it is a fault in the build i think he would fix it without hesitation. So basicly this adapter comes with a guarantee.

Regarding the exec.lib patch. Here i can see your point, but who in their right mind cares? As Pyrre said, i really dont see the differece between a patch file, or a patched binary of the exec either.

And last. Cosmos.. Illuminati? Really? :)

Cheers! :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 09:22:18 AM by roomeo »
a500 - Vampire500+
a600 - aca620/indiECS/Subway - Soon to be sold. :(
a4000 - 16mb Fast / Apollo4060@66mhz (ram not working) / X-Surf + RapidRoad / FastlaneZ3 64mb + Acard ARS-2000FU -> CfIDE / Delfina Lite / PicassoIV ... Who needs PCI?!