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Author Topic: GPL RTG driver information available  (Read 15619 times)

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Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #74 from previous page: May 20, 2016, 03:08:21 PM »
Quote from: Gulliver;808838
It seems you still dont get it:

He is offering Cybergraphics. With Cybergraphics in hand we can ditch Picasso96 into oblivion along with all its associated drama and greedy vultures.


It's definitely a step in the best direction, assuming it's legitimate, because Aros has a very similar API.

The downside is trying to run CGX on most PCI boards because the closed source drivers are all for P96.

You can't use those on CGX, right? I've only used CGX once or twice over the years, so I'm not that familiar.

In addition, Elbox drivers do more than just graphics so that they can set up their DMA bounce buffers and who knows how that black box works.
 

Offline grond

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2016, 03:13:25 PM »
I think the idea that somebody may have disassembled his older Picasso-to-become-CGFX for creating the picasso we know is interesting, too. It was already indicated that the latter  is not free from other people's "contributions"...
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2016, 03:15:10 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;808839
It's definitely a step in the best direction, assuming it's legitimate, because Aros has a very similar API.


i think in fact both p96 and aros cybergraphics were designed to be api compatible with cgx.

Quote

The downside is trying to run CGX on most PCI boards because the closed source drivers are all for P96.

You can't use those on CGX, right? I've only used CGX once or twice over the years, so I'm not that familiar.


aros also provides p96 wraper for its cybergraphics, which is open code, so in theory it might be ported in order to user p96 driver files furrther.

however we are still not talking of freeing the current cgx sources here, these are property and part of morpos theam and their work and i hardly believe they are going to give up on this just like that.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2016, 03:18:01 PM »
Quote from: grond;808840
I think the idea that somebody may have disassembled his older Picasso-to-become-CGFX for creating the picasso we know is interesting, too. It was already indicated that the latter  is not free from other people's "contributions"...


i think its a quick assumption, hard to prove either way anymore. it might have been clean room as well. dont just take sides because it suits your views.
 

Offline grond

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2016, 03:23:29 PM »
I didn't say anything was proven, was I? But the idea is interesting and should be checked before any rights are transferred or tried to be enforced.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2016, 04:30:00 PM »
Quote from: grond;808843
I didn't say anything was proven, was I? But the idea is interesting and should be checked before any rights are transferred or tried to be enforced.

Why open a can?

Partly when looking at the "community" it is starting to be funny... who cares?
 

Offline grond

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2016, 04:34:32 PM »
OlafS3: it's interesting because it is another coffin nail for the attempt to monopolise an important part of the RTG market. I wouldn't spend any money for some dubious rights in some software that was hacked together from various sources.
 

guest11527

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2016, 05:55:51 PM »
Quote from: grond;808847
I wouldn't spend any money for some dubious rights in some software that was hacked together from various sources.

Actually, you don't need to spend money on it in first place. But you calling it dubious is for a somewhat obvious purpose, right?  Well, anyhow, I checked the source, and yes, indeed, there is some third party code in it, apparently a collection of various contributions around P96. I find a couple of plugins for AdPro and Photogenics that are not authored by Tobias and Alex, and that should certainly be removed in the final distribution. I also find a couple of internal rtg test functions that seem to have been contributed from third parties and carry an outside copyright. They have not been part of the distribution, anyhow. I also see a Shapeshifter plugin that, as it seems, is not by Tobias and Alex, and I agree that such components should be either removed, or the corresponding authors should be contacted and negotiated with.  I also see a re-implementation of the cgfx-api, that is a re-implementation of the open API of CGfx as it is documented and as it was available. Actually, as a separate library. So if that infringes third party rights, P96 would also work without it. That is certainly something that can be checked.  I see no indication in the actual core for such "dubious" sources. Of course, that's not a proof that no third party rights are involved, but it seems to be rather non-obvious to proof or disprove such claims; calling it dubious is rather premature. That of course goes for every non-trivial software.  In either case, I wonder how you can backup your position.
 

Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #82 on: May 20, 2016, 06:45:47 PM »
I'm removing the repository later today.

I've been convinced that attempting to work with any of the current license holders is more trouble than it is worth. The only sane option is to replace the problematic apis with new ones that the community controls.

If anyone is interested in helping, see my other thread or contact me directly.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #83 on: May 20, 2016, 08:02:16 PM »
things like that shouldnt be rushed but approached in a systemathical way. otherwise they will end up as straw fire anyway.
 

Offline kolla

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2016, 10:57:59 AM »
Amazing to come back from a few days with Real Life to find all this "fresh" drama :)
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A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
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CDTV
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Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Ratte

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2016, 01:09:19 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;808541
Excuse me for being a bit vague, but I'm trying to avoid the use of a name similar to "P9x" even in passing so that there is zero chance I get slapped with a trademark or copyright dispute.

All current code is based on WinUAE and E-UAE, the rest is from my interpretation of what those were doing. I've never seen an official DDK.

I've worked on an open source RTG driver on and off for a while and lately I'm seeing more people doing the same, which is awesome for the community.

I've just started a git repository for an open DDK for Amiga compatible drivers at https://github.com/jeperk/OpenVideoDDK

It's very early, I've just started getting old info together into the repository and I'm planning to revive my unfinished example OpenPCI Voodoo3 driver as time permits.

Most of it is based on WinUAE, but with hopefully correct translations of the PSSO_ offsets used in WinUAE to actual C structures.

I've also taken the comments in WinUAE and based on the code, written what I think are correct SAS/C style stubs for most functions.

It is not complete by any means, but having the information available can't hurt.

If anyone wants to contribute info or code, feel free to contact me.

Edit: I renamed the project to correct a typo (capital I in Video, thanks polluks), so the URL has changed.

Edit 2: Now under LGPL due to problematic nature of GPL and linking in Amiga-like systems.


http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48710
It is prepared for other chip-drivers.

My problem is getting hands on a Voodoo ...

http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=808109&postcount=173
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=941638

br
André
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2016, 01:33:15 PM »
@ratte
the problem is this relies on pci bus, while on amiga this is only one option how a rtg card is fitted into a system. except of zorro cads (like these gba cards, the matze one or the oane of lukas/mntmn) there is for instance the apollo framebuffer, which also doenst talk over pci.

we need well structured overall solution/concept that can be easily filled in also by independent contributors.
 

Offline HeiroglyphTopic starter

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2016, 08:09:15 PM »
Quote from: Ratte;808970
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48710
It is prepared for other chip-drivers.

My problem is getting hands on a Voodoo ...

http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=808109&postcount=173
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=941638

br
André


I'm interested in what you're doing, but the Google translation isn't very good.

It looks like you're doing something similar to what I was doing for my OpenPCI example driver.

Care to give me a brief overview in English?

I've only got a single Voodoo3 now, I sold my other one a few years ago.
 

Offline umisef

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Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2016, 01:36:42 PM »
Quote from: kolla;808696
What was "legal" status of P96 drivers in Amithlon/AmigaOSXL?


Quote from: Heiroglyph;808697
Lol, who knows.

If someone told me they stole the CDs I wouldn't be surprised.


Just a quick note --- P96 for Amithlon was fully licensed directly from Tobias and Alexander; It's been too many years for me to remember the exact amount (and IIRC, that amount was still in Deutschmark), but my vague recollection is that it was something like 5 Euro per copy. And while I wasn't personally in charge of making sure they got paid, my impression is that they (unlike Amiga Inc) *did* get paid --- I was in contact with them afterwards, and they never mentioned any issues in that regard.

Can't speak for AmigaXL, of course...
 

Offline kamelito

Re: GPL RTG driver information available
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2016, 08:35:44 PM »
@Heiroglyph

Are you following CBM RTG specifications as seen in the Amiga Developers Conference of Orlando from 1993? And others info like FutureProductOptions_dist.pdf

Kamelito