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Author Topic: A4000 and A4091  (Read 5432 times)

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Offline Damion

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2016, 09:50:50 PM »
The A4091 ROM won't replace anything in kickstart, rather it should should show up renamed as "2nd.scsi.device" (any IDE drives would continue to be managed by the scsi.device located in the Kickstart ROM).

Due to reliability issues with Z3 DMA, the transfer rate you're reporting is normal for the 4091. DMA to motherboard RAM (using a 3640 for example) is generally about 1 MB/s higher than DMA to accelerator RAM (and a bit faster still if the motherboard RAM is set to 60ns). Filesystem operations test roughly equivalent to accelerators I have here with onboard SCSI, so in practice, the 4091 "feels" very responsive using PFS3, and CPU use is negligible. (Sidenote: the Fastlane Z3 can be programmed to have a higher transfer rate than the 4091, but at the expense of CPU time). I use a 4091 with a CF AztecMonster in my 4000D, and really love the card.

Dave Haynie wrote lots of interesting info about the 4091 (various websites, and check the usenet archive).
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 09:56:06 PM »
Quote from: Damion;806880
The A4091 ROM won't replace anything in kickstart, rather it should should show up renamed as "2nd.scsi.device" (any IDE drives would continue to be managed by the scsi.device located in the Kickstart ROM).

Due to reliability issues with Z3 DMA, the transfer rate you're reporting is normal for the 4091. DMA to motherboard RAM (using a 3640 for example) is generally about 1 MB/s higher than DMA to accelerator RAM (and a bit faster still if the motherboard RAM is set to 60ns). Filesystem operations test roughly equivalent to accelerators I have here with onboard SCSI, so in practice, the 4091 "feels" very responsive using PFS3, and CPU use is negligible. (Sidenote: the Fastlane Z3 can be programmed to have a higher transfer rate than the 4091, but at the expense of CPU time). I use a 4091 with a CF AztecMonster in my 4000D, and really love the card.

Dave Haynie wrote lots of interesting info about the 4091 (various websites, and check the usenet archive).


I not have any device in the ide port and the A4091 use scsi.device, if I connect one device to ide my A4091 change device to 2nd.scsi.device. In my config 2nd.scsi.device not exist.

How I set the ram at 60ns? I only need to have 60ns simm?
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Offline Damion

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2016, 10:30:19 PM »
Hmm.. IIRC, there is a utility named "SpeedRamsey". I'm sure there were a few others ("Report+" comes to mind).
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Online zipper

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 10:32:58 PM »
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2016, 10:40:40 PM »
Thanks, but I verified and I not have all 60ns simm but a mixed 70/60ns simm...

But two questions remain: with standard ram is impossible to go faster than 5mb/sec with scsi?

And... if I run the command "version scsi.device" it show the version of A4091 or Kickstart rom? If is kickstart rom, how I find A4091 rom version?
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Offline mechy

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2016, 10:52:40 PM »
Quote from: Damion;806880
The A4091 ROM won't replace anything in kickstart, rather it should should show up renamed as "2nd.scsi.device" (any IDE drives would continue to be managed by the scsi.device located in the Kickstart ROM).

Due to reliability issues with Z3 DMA, the transfer rate you're reporting is normal for the 4091. DMA to motherboard RAM (using a 3640 for example) is generally about 1 MB/s higher than DMA to accelerator RAM (and a bit faster still if the motherboard RAM is set to 60ns). Filesystem operations test roughly equivalent to accelerators I have here with onboard SCSI, so in practice, the 4091 "feels" very responsive using PFS3, and CPU use is negligible. (Sidenote: the Fastlane Z3 can be programmed to have a higher transfer rate than the 4091, but at the expense of CPU time). I use a 4091 with a CF AztecMonster in my 4000D, and really love the card.

Dave Haynie wrote lots of interesting info about the 4091 (various websites, and check the usenet archive).

What speeds are you seeing with 4091 and aztec monster?
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Offline Damion

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2016, 05:15:28 AM »
Quote from: mechy;806886
What speeds are you seeing with 4091 and aztec monster?


It's been a while, but I recall performance for reads was 4-5 MB/s (the same setup on my TekMagic 2060 was about 9 MB/s, measured with RSCP). Filesystem benchmarks were the same as accelerators I've tested with onboard SCSI, so in practice (booting, opening windows, etc) it feels really zippy. It also works flawless copying to and from drives on my DENEB (funny, considering it crashes when copying between two drives on the DENEB, but that's another story...).
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2016, 01:52:17 PM »
Arrived active terminator and new eprom!

But if I run: "version scsi.device" have the same result... 40.12! Why?
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Offline mechy

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2016, 05:47:21 PM »
Quote from: marmotta;807243
Arrived active terminator and new eprom!

But if I run: "version scsi.device" have the same result... 40.12! Why?

you are doing version on the amiga 4000 scsi.device in 3.1 rom?
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2016, 06:18:45 PM »
Quote from: mechy;807250
you are doing version on the amiga 4000 scsi.device in 3.1 rom?


I think so... but how I check a4091 rom? I not have 2nd.scsi.device but only scsi.device!

My system boot with kickstart scsi.device instead of a4091 scsi.device in the eprom? :crazy:
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2016, 03:07:52 PM »
Ok, I have used scout and it show 40.13! ...version show 40.12... Is a bug?
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2016, 10:32:27 AM »
Quote from: Damion;806895
It's been a while, but I recall performance for reads was 4-5 MB/s (the same setup on my TekMagic 2060 was about 9 MB/s, measured with RSCP). Filesystem benchmarks were the same as accelerators I've tested with onboard SCSI, so in practice (booting, opening windows, etc) it feels really zippy. It also works flawless copying to and from drives on my DENEB (funny, considering it crashes when copying between two drives on the DENEB, but that's another story...).

You have the A4091, true? You can confirm my boot-up steps?

If I power-on my Amiga it load wb from scsi without a problem, if I reset... no problem. If I go to boot menu (left+right mouse button) and continue the boot process (with or without startup-sequence) my Amiga go to the kickstart screen! I need to reset for load a wb. Is a normal?
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Offline mechy

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2016, 04:08:27 PM »
You may of seen this:
http://www.hough.ca/personal/4091.html#a3640
An interesting note here about how rev 3.1 A3640 needs u209 to be -03(aka like on rev3.2) or there are DMA problems supposedly.I never noticed this way back when i had a 4091.
not sure if this would impact speed.
At the end of the day a quality accelerator with scsi onboard is always best :)
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2016, 05:49:00 PM »
Quote from: mechy;807353
You may of seen this:
http://www.hough.ca/personal/4091.html#a3640
An interesting note here about how rev 3.1 A3640 needs u209 to be -03(aka like on rev3.2) or there are DMA problems supposedly.I never noticed this way back when i had a 4091.
not sure if this would impact speed.
At the end of the day a quality accelerator with scsi onboard is always best :)


My U209 is -02 :(

But in this link say the 02 is correct: http://vintagecomputercafe.com/amiga/A4091%20ROM.txt
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Offline marmottaTopic starter

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Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2017, 02:46:28 PM »
I changed all capacitors on the A4091 but the problem is not solved...
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Offline mechy

Re: A4000 and A4091
« Reply #29 from previous page: June 12, 2017, 05:47:01 PM »
Quote from: marmotta;826984
I changed all capacitors on the A4091 but the problem is not solved...

I think you are getting all you can from that combo. If you want faster scsi i would suggest a good accelerator with scsi(not apollo).
Cyberstorm MK3/ppc will get you UWscsi at around 30-40MB/s.
warp engine, cyberstorm MKII,gvp4060DT,etc around 9-10MB/s
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