[UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.

[Aegis]

As I understand it you are not interested in buying a Vampire anyway.

Just as soon as they make a CD32 version

There will be no new 3.1, and expecially no 4.X for 68k how some (you?) seem to fantasize. Hyperion wants to sell 4.X on real PPC hardware, even the many emulation customers are officially not supported. All that "they will backport 4.X to 68k" are wet dreams distant from any reality. What you might have got (at best) a slightly improved 3.1.

Hyperion wants to sell products that make money - PPC is simply where they've ended up (unfortunately) - and the copyright scenario has changed drastically since the days of the Pegasos. Now the classic hardware market's getting a shake-up that couldn't have happened until products like the Vampire appeared so opportunities are presenting themselves that weren't viable before due to licensing and commercial viability.

That doesn't mean you're wrong - just that if the rights-holders wanted to exploit OS 3.x to make some money, the chances of creating a product that sells are potentially greater now than they've been in a long time (since the Vampire is the first classic Amiga product to come along that's *vastly* more capable than anything we had before).

Clearly there's some will from Cloanto since they've been making minor updates to 3.x for distribution on disk, ROMs and as part as Amiga Forever. I've already stated I highly doubt any of this will result in an updated 68k OS but perhaps if there's a demand for it (due to a product like the Vampire) then it will (and clearly devs like Thomas are open to the idea and as a user I'd be interested in buying it).

Aros is a reimplementation of the 3.1 API including intuition, gadtools and many others.

Upon it you can use not only the limited default desktop but also Scalos and even Magellan (both old one and new one). When using Magellan you can even use MUI 3.8 on it (what I did). It includes additional several patches by default, moving screen out of window, AHI, CybergraphX and so on, there is PCI support and USB-Stack (Poseidon), both on 68k untested but potentially working, network stack and so on. Wawa managed to get MESA/Gallium working on 68k (though slow but who knows what future brings).

Regarding AROS, I tried the Amiga Forever downloadable and it's impressive - really, really great work. But it's not the AmigaOS I grew up with and began a career as a digital artist using - and it never can be. If there's people out there using it and getting enjoyment out of it then that's wonderful and a testament to your hard work - but it's not something I'd personally choose to use - but that's just me.

[OlafS3]

Just as soon as they make a CD32 version



Hyperion wants to sell products that make money - PPC is simply where they've ended up (unfortunately) - and the copyright scenario has changed drastically since the days of the Pegasos. Now the classic hardware market's getting a shake-up that couldn't have happened until products like the Vampire appeared so opportunities are presenting themselves that weren't viable before due to licensing and commercial viability.

That doesn't mean you're wrong - just that if the rights-holders wanted to exploit OS 3.x to make some money, the chances of creating a product that sells are potentially greater now than they've been in a long time (since the Vampire is the first classic Amiga product to come along that's *vastly* more capable than anything we had before).

Clearly there's some will from Cloanto since they've been making minor updates to 3.x for distribution on disk, ROMs and as part as Amiga Forever. I've already stated I highly doubt any of this will result in an updated 68k OS but perhaps if there's a demand for it (due to a product like the Vampire) then it will (and clearly devs like Thomas are open to the idea and a user like myself would be interested in buying it).

Honestly I do not know how the legal situation around Hyperion and Cloanto really is and if Cloanto has all sources. Obviously they are allowed to do changes for their emulation package, but would they be allowed to sell a signficant changed package for hardware like Vampire?

But the decisions are there, officially the NG OS is Aros but nobody is hindering Cloanto or Hyperion to support Vampire and offer updated packages. They want to make money with it (business opportunities like Thomas called it) but that has to be paid by the customers of Vampire. It is not like 3.5 or 3.9 that could be bought and used but not needed to.

[Aegis]

Well it's just wishful thinking on my part at the moment but if the Vampire is successful enough then perhaps there's money to be made by supporting it - who knows?

I'm glad the Vampire's going to create more exposure for AROS 68k though

[wawrzon]

i dont get the whole drama. there is an accelerator that currently apparently needs an updated rom. but the consumers have acquired a license for legitimate use of that rom long ago with their machines. whatever software the users will use on this hardware is their choice. looks like people start being interested in aros in this context, but it remains to be seen what comes out of this. the os4 license holders wanted to collect money on this occasion but apparently again refused any further support. this is simply their decision and their policy not since yesterday. so the ship has sailed without them. thats all. no butthurt necessary..

[kolla]

The simple solution is that Apollo Team make sure the Apollo core and Vampire boards are so compatible that they don't *need* patching exec and kickstarts. It is really that simple! With all the touting about compatibility, the Apollo core should run fine with any kickstart, 1.x onwards. Incidentally, I have a MIST, and it has softcore 68000/010/020 that does run unpatched kickstarts just fine. The apollo team can easily fix this situation themselves, it would even create a bigger market for them. But, whatever

[kolla]

What about a seemless 68k compability?

Hopefully yes.

[kolla]

then why running 3.X on Apollo core or more precise why running anything amiga related at all?

Indeed. What I want with "classic" is to use the programs that pushed the chipset, meaning graphics productivity software like DPaint, Brilliance etc and various music generating software. Once RTG enters the picture, I move to faster options with far more RAM anyways. Besides that, I have an interest in Linux and BSD on m68k.

[kolla]

i dont get the whole drama. there is an accelerator that currently apparently needs an updated rom. but the consumers have acquired a license for legitimate use of that rom long ago with their machines.

Only A1200, A4000T and CD32 were ever sold with 3.1 kickstarts, AFAIK.

[wawrzon]

Only A1200, A4000T and CD32 were ever sold with 3.1 kickstarts, AFAIK.

you could get 3.1 kickstarts for whatever amiga. i have my all 4000er upgraded. if the kickstarts bought from amiga dealers are legal, that is.

[wawrzon]

The simple solution is that Apollo Team make sure the Apollo core and Vampire boards are so compatible that they don't *need* patching exec and kickstarts. It is really that simple! With all the touting about compatibility, the Apollo core should run fine with any kickstart, 1.x onwards. Incidentally, I have a MIST, and it has softcore 68000/010/020 that does run unpatched kickstarts just fine. The apollo team can easily fix this situation themselves, it would even create a bigger market for them. But, whatever

that might be en course, thanks jason again, autoconfig and the like..

[kolla]

you could get 3.1 kickstarts for whatever amiga. i have my all 4000er upgraded. if the kickstarts bought from amiga dealers are legal, that is.

Of course, me too, but many never did.

[kolla]

that might be en course, thanks jason again, autoconfig and the like..

If that is so, good.

Another obvious limitation is of course the current production line, which from what I understand is kipper2k and his soldering iron.

[gregthecanuck]

Wow quite the discussion thread! Nice to see the Vampire stirring up some lively discussion.

Here is my take on the situation...

It appears to me that the OS4/PPC vs OS3/68K situation resembles Microsoft's old stance on their software. Windows/PCs only. Only software for Windows. Android and OSX/iOS can go suck rocks. However recently Microsoft has changed their ways realizing there is a bigger market out there than just Windows and PCs. Look at all the work they are now doing with software support for all platforms. It is quite a change to behold. Larger user base = more revenue going forward. Windows or not.

I suggest the PPC hardware may be the equivalent to the "Windows only" mentality.

The clincher here will be users. Hardware shipped. If a lot of Vampires (and MIST and whatever else comes along) get out into the world and a large enough user base is built it starts to become a more attractive platform to the OS3/OS4 owners. Possibly even MorphOS.

At what point does it become attractive? Who knows. But the key to anything really happening on the OS front is shipping hardware. Shipping hardware in volume. VOLUME. Get an installed base of at least a couple thousand users. That will start to show the possible market size.

Until we see volumes of hardware with a mature "gold" core all this thrashing on the operating system front is just that. I can understand Hyperion's resistance at the moment. So many projects go nowhere. This Apollo system has a chance to do well but installed hardware will do all the talking.

[wawrzon]

If that is so, good.

Another obvious limitation is of course the current production line, which from what I understand is kipper2k and his soldering iron.

omg.. what is wrong again??? will you ever run out of complaints? everybody is working here as much he can, but obviously it will never be satisfactory..

[wawrzon]

I can understand Hyperion's resistance at the moment. So many projects go nowhere.

afair its mostly their projects that go nowhere. instead, community based projects tend to succeed. and im a bit confused about what could they offer us under these circumstances.

[gregthecanuck]

afair its mostly their projects that go nowhere. instead, community based projects tend to succeed. and im a bit confused about what could they offer us under these circumstances.

I should have said "Hardware projects". Why are you a bit confused?