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Author Topic: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.  (Read 107640 times)

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Offline grond

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #269 on: March 02, 2016, 01:13:26 PM »
Quote from: mikej;805155
The gap will  be narrower. As I said the routing delays become similar to the logic delay. I'll run some tests next week.

America and Europe are getting closer to each other each year by continental drift... :)

That in itself doesn't mean much. Let us hear about your test results, any progress is good. But right now it doesn't sound like a convincing approach to have a more expensive product which has less processing power than your competition and then trying to solve this by putting in a more expensive component.


Quote
Yup, we have a HD capable graphics card with dedicated blitter, and ~ 060 performance (sans MMU and FPU) already.

That must be a very wide interpretation of "approximately". You have 28 MHz clock, the 060 at least 50 MHz. The 060 does simple instructions in one clock cycle and so do you. But the 060 can do a second simple instruction in the same clock cycle while you can't. The 060 has very good branch prediction and fast branches, you have none. The 060 has 32 bit wide buses, you still need to remove the 16 bit limitation. The 060 has fast caches, you still need to add those.

I estimate that you are currently in the 030 range of performance. If you manage to do the caches, the wider buses and improve the clock rate, you'll be entering 040ish performance. Still a long way to go as the apollo core is twice as fast as an 060 right now and still improving. Let's hear your adoom fps, Riva playback, mp3 decoding and how they are improving while you are making the core faster. For us the adoom fps is a standard test because it is more interesting than just some sysinfo MIPS.

BTW, does the fact that you didn't say anything about the offer to try to maintain compatibility between the apollo core and the fpgaarcade's implementation of AGA and 68k that you are going to consider it?
 

Offline mikej

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #270 on: March 02, 2016, 01:25:09 PM »
Quote from: grond;805164
But right now it doesn't sound like a convincing approach to have a more expensive product which has less processing power than your competition and then trying to solve this by putting in a more expensive component.


It's slightly more expensive, but it is the complete system. It's also a bit more than a one-trick-pony, so to speak. Who said the newer FPGA would be more expensive than the current one?

"The 060 has fast caches, you still need to add those."

I have full I & D cache with full bus snooping and prefetch already.

"For us the adoom fps is a standard test because it is more interesting than just some sysinfo MIPS."

For sure, I'll give it a go. If I want to play adoom at silly speeds however, I'll dig out UAE and run it on the PI.

"BTW, does the fact that you didn't say anything about the offer to try to maintain compatibility between the apollo core and the fpgaarcade's implementation of AGA and 68k that you are going to consider it?"

If the Apollo core adds non-standard instructions then it's no longer "retro" and of little interest (to me at least) to emulate. The beauty of open source is that it's an option open at any time of course.
/MikeJ
 

Offline grond

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #271 on: March 02, 2016, 01:44:15 PM »
Quote from: mikej;805165
If the Apollo core adds non-standard instructions then it's no longer "retro" and of little interest (to me at least) to emulate.

OK, I understand that. How about stuff like device drivers? I think that's something where both strictly retro and enhanced retro implementations can benefit from cooperation. Our device drivers will be open.
 

Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #272 on: March 02, 2016, 01:44:40 PM »
Quote from: grond;805164
America and Europe are getting closer to each other each year by continental drift... :)


Not.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
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Offline grond

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #273 on: March 02, 2016, 01:58:44 PM »
Farther apart?
 

Offline mikej

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #274 on: March 02, 2016, 02:26:15 PM »
Quote from: grond;805166
OK, I understand that. How about stuff like device drivers? I think that's something where both strictly retro and enhanced retro implementations can benefit from cooperation. Our device drivers will be open.


I so no reason not to. My RTG driver will be open too. I have a licensed USB stack so binaries only for that at the moment.
 

Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #275 on: March 02, 2016, 04:01:13 PM »
Quote from: grond;805168
Farther apart?

Are you serious?
Yes.

In other news, the earth is orbiting the sun. :laughing:
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #276 on: March 02, 2016, 04:07:45 PM »
With the Vampire requiring AROS, and only new software being able to make benefit from the improvements Apollo core has over old 68k - what benefits are there in running AROS on Apollo core vs running AROS on a cheap ARM or AMD64 system?
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline zylesea

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #277 on: March 02, 2016, 04:27:02 PM »
Quote from: kolla;805173
With the Vampire requiring AROS, and only new software being able to make benefit from the improvements Apollo core has over old 68k - what benefits are there in running AROS on Apollo core vs running AROS on a cheap ARM or AMD64 system?


What about a seemless 68k compability?

Offline pixie

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #278 on: March 02, 2016, 04:45:32 PM »
Quote from: kolla;805173
With the Vampire requiring AROS, and only new software being able to make benefit from the improvements Apollo core has over old 68k - what benefits are there in running AROS on Apollo core vs running AROS on a cheap ARM or AMD64 system?

Pure awesomeness? o.O


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Offline Kremlar

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #279 on: March 02, 2016, 04:48:25 PM »
Quote from: kolla;805173
With the Vampire requiring AROS, and only new software being able to make benefit from the improvements Apollo core has over old 68k - what benefits are there in running AROS on Apollo core vs running AROS on a cheap ARM or AMD64 system?


First of all, I don't think anyone is saying the Vampire would REQUIRE AROS.  Second of all, I believe they are suggesting the possible use of AROS to replace Kickstart.  You would still be able to use Workbench.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #280 on: March 02, 2016, 05:24:21 PM »
Quote from: kolla;805173
With the Vampire requiring AROS, and only new software being able to make benefit from the improvements Apollo core has over old 68k - what benefits are there in running AROS on Apollo core vs running AROS on a cheap ARM or AMD64 system?

then why running 3.X on Apollo core or more precise why running anything amiga related at all?
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #281 on: March 02, 2016, 05:30:01 PM »
Quote from: Kremlar;805179
First of all, I don't think anyone is saying the Vampire would REQUIRE AROS.  Second of all, I believe they are suggesting the possible use of AROS to replace Kickstart.  You would still be able to use Workbench.

who can proof that he owns original roms gets a system with 3.1. kickstarts, everyone else with roms

3.X will not be developed because no sources, P96 is supported by a driver but nothing else

support for improved hardware will only be available at Aros (of course software can still directly hack the hardware on 3.X)

I hope all was correct
 

Offline Fats

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #282 on: March 02, 2016, 06:57:33 PM »
Quote from: mikej;805094
I am not a fan of the GPL license for hardware


Maybe have a look at the CERN open hardware license which should be a copyleft type license fit for hardware. At last ORConf it has been shown that the (L)GPL is not really a good fit for hardware; especially the standard cell libraries seem to still be poblematic.
Trust me...                                              I know what I\'m doing
 

Offline Djole

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #283 on: March 02, 2016, 07:43:45 PM »
Quote from: kolla;805173
With the Vampire requiring AROS, and only new software being able to make benefit from the improvements Apollo core has over old 68k - what benefits are there in running AROS on Apollo core vs running AROS on a cheap ARM or AMD64 system?


Apollo is more compatible with 68000/68020 then 68060 so you have no clue what you are talking about..... Troll away....
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guest11527

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #284 from previous page: March 02, 2016, 07:52:30 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;805181
3.X will not be developed because no sources, P96 is supported by a driver but nothing else
Err, what? Of course the sources for 3.X exist. It's not developed because everybody here tells me "go away, we have no interest in it". That's a difference.  Again, I've no problem if people prefer AROS - that's a choice everybody can make - but don't tell me that there are no sources for 3.X. There most certainly are, and they would be most certainly be used if there would be interest in a - albeit closed source, paid - development.  So please, let's be honest about this. If you prefer Open Source - good. But that doesn't mean that the closed source sources are lost in time and space and that there would be nobody that would work on them.  
Quote from: OlafS3;805181
I hope all was correct

I afraid not quite so.