[UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.

[grond]

Regarding open-sourcing the apollo core, this is not going to happen for a reason which we all should agree with: the possibility of an ASIC made from the apollo core (think 2 GHz apollo instead of 100 MHz...). This will definitely not happen if the core were open-sourced because no investor will ever invest the necessary money into an open-sourced core. This is because

a) any competitor could just do the same killing the ASIC economically

b) the investor would have to fear that the open nature of the source will invite patent trolls who could claim that some part of the source infringes some patent (try proving that from the ASIC alone and you'll understand the difference...)

I'm 100% sure that anyone interested will be allowed (or rather encouraged) to replicate the 64-bit 68k mode and the SAGA extensions that apollo core will bring in their respective projects.

[Aegis]

I'm 100% sure that anyone interested will be allowed (or rather encouraged) to replicate the 64-bit 68k mode and the SAGA extensions that apollo core will bring in their respective projects.

Here's hoping

[kolla]

If the community wants to go AROS, why should I stop them?

"should"? You clearly "want", since AROS will be "a mess"

But then, if everyone is begging for OpenSource, please be also so honest and open the source completely, and with full consequences. That means:

*) Do not build on a proprietary interface. Create your own, and open source that interface. You would probably notice how much work went into it and would appreciate the work of the original authors.

*) Do not build on a proprietary FPGA solution. Open source the solution as well.

Exactly, which is why I really do not have so much interest in apollo core, it is clearly just an attempt at monopolizing "the market".

[OlafS3]

what are you talking about?

there is nothing that would or will be monopolized

every adaption of Aros is benefitting everyone

as long developers do not use specific apollo commands or SAGA features software will run everywhere

[kolla]

Vampire is the future, SAGA offers higher resolution and more colors than AGA and more. Coming software will make use of it.

In their dreams - I will pester them online for attempting at monopolizing the Amiga market till they blow off like lemmings.

Apollo core will leak! :laughing:

[OlafS3]

In their dreams - I will pester them online for attempting at monopolizing the Amiga market till they blow off like lemmings.

Apollo core will leak! :laughing:

*sigh*

[wawrzon]

i love changing backgrounds, and getting things to work, like mplayer, google drive, printer, etc...

But thats about it.

changing backgrounds.. how weird.. i think its much more interesting and rewarding tryin to help others in a group of people of different interests working towards something independently. instead of sitting there alone pushing icons around you kind of socialize with complete strangers. i just joined the apollo dev irc yesterday, not even having the hardware and it really feels good because you contribute and receive. common problems are being solved.

[Niding]

In their dreams - I will pester them online for attempting at monopolizing the Amiga market till they blow off like lemmings.

Apollo core will leak! :laughing:

You wouldnt happen to be Frankos norwegian cousin?

[kolla]

Now "everybody" will have 060++ level performance and atleast 2+128 megs of ram.

Dream on.

[kolla]

it is decision of developers

Especially developers of compiler backends.

[kolla]

I'm 100% sure that anyone interested will be allowed (or rather encouraged) to replicate the 64-bit 68k mode and the SAGA extensions that apollo core will bring in their respective projects.

That is certainly not the impression I got from following this project over a year and a half. For a neat sum of money, the core can be licensed to your FPGA project, of course.

Why is there an Apollo vs. PowerPC vs NION (of all things) soft core speed comparison on the apollo-core website? What/who is Gunnar trying to attract with that?

[kolla]

You wouldnt happen to be Frankos norwegian cousin?

We are friends on FB and in contact every now and then, he is really a great guy

I was more weirded out by certain other amiga people who wanted to be friends with me there, but maybe it has not dawned on them who I am :laughing:

[grond]

That is certainly not the impression I got from following this project over a year and a half.

"Replicate", not "take the code and use it". I suppose AMD didn't give Intel the VHDL sources to their x64 extension either...

For a neat sum of money, the core can be licensed to your FPGA project, of course.

I don't think for an FPGA project because then the code would spread. For an ASIC? I guess that would be a dream to come true.

Why is there an Apollo vs. PowerPC vs NION (of all things) soft core speed comparison on the apollo-core website?

A comparison against PowerPC makes sense in the Amiga world, even more so since the PPC softcore is actually marketed as an ASIC, too, I just forgot the part number. NIOS is a popular softcore and probably was available to the testers at IBM and serves the role as a neutral third for comparing both apollo and PPC.

What/who is Gunnar trying to attract with that?

I don't know. He may be proud of their 68k implementation which took them seven years and isn't even complete yet? He likes to point out that dropping 68k and going RISC wasn't as wise a move as it seemed in the early 90s. Perhaps he hopes that somebody will license the core for an ASIC?

[Aegis]

changing backgrounds.. how weird.. i think its much more interesting and rewarding tryin to help others in a group of people of different interests working towards something independently. instead of sitting there alone pushing icons around you kind of socialize with complete strangers. i just joined the apollo dev irc yesterday, not even having the hardware and it really feels good because you contribute and receive. common problems are being solved.

Nothing wrong with tinkering I'm pretty OCD when it comes to setting up computers the way I want them and AmigaOS has always been insanely customizable and it doesn't really hold your hand either - the perfect recipe for endless tinkering

And sure, collaborations are good and thanks to Amiga users and devs collaborating over the years we still (amazingly) have new toys to play with but that doesn't mean everyone's interest lies in that direction - I'm more an artist than a techie so I wouldn't bring much to that kind of scene - plus if there's one thing I hate about the Amiga community it's the politics and infighting - I don't have the patience for it any more.

But hey - I'm beta-testing the s**t out of WinUAE 3.3.0 at the moment

[kolla]

"Replicate", not "take the code and use it". I suppose AMD didn't give Intel the VHDL sources to their x64 extension either...

It is one of those "I will believe it when I see it" things.

I don't think for an FPGA project because then the code would spread. For an ASIC? I guess that would be a dream to come true.

For Amiga users only, that is a very small market for doing ASIC production of an oddball CPU.
 

A comparison against PowerPC makes sense in the Amiga world, even more so since the PPC softcore is actually marketed as an ASIC, too, I just forgot the part number.

Are you saying that there are AmigaOne systems around running a FPGA softcore PowerPC?

NIOS is a popular softcore and probably was available to the testers at IBM and serves the role as a neutral third for comparing both apollo and PPC.

However, those other cores have features that appeal to the real world markets and are widely supported outside of Amiga sphere.

I don't know. He may be proud of their 68k implementation which took them seven years and isn't even complete yet? He likes to point out that dropping 68k and going RISC wasn't as wise a move as it seemed in the early 90s. Perhaps he hopes that somebody will license the core for an ASIC?

That could happen if the first products would be truly compatible with existing OSes, toolchains and software. Instead it is a core that is not really compatible enough, and does not yet have any toolchain and compiler backends. Hopefully they will show up, but with an architecture only catering to how Amiga use 68k, what are the odds it will happen? I have asked around in various other 68k camps (NetBSD, Linux, NeXT, Atari), and the answer is always the same - not compatible enough, cannot be bothered.

[grond]

For Amiga users only, that is a very small market for doing ASIC production of an oddball CPU.

The apollo core could be interesting for other applications besides Amiga, Atari and other legacy 68k based devices. After all there are still companies producing 68k processors. Perhaps the company willing to invest into an apollo ASIC wouldn't even be aware of its possible use in an Amiga.
 

Are you saying that there are AmigaOne systems around running a FPGA softcore PowerPC?

I don't know because I never was interested in PPC-Amigas. But I'm pretty sure Gunnar mentioned that the same VHDL as the PPC Softcore was available as an ASIC.

However, those other cores have features that appeal to the real world markets

Which features do you think the apollo core is lacking that the others offer? PPC/NIOS code compatibility does not count.

That could happen if the first products would be truly compatible with existing OSes, toolchains and software. Instead it is a core that is not really compatible enough

Why do you think so? MMU again? An MMU may be implemented if there is enough interest.

I have asked around in various other 68k camps (NetBSD, Linux, NeXT, Atari), and the answer is always the same - not compatible enough, cannot be bothered.

And they based their assessment on what source of information?