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Author Topic: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.  (Read 105273 times)

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Offline Terminills

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #179 on: February 29, 2016, 05:17:06 PM »
Quote from: grond;804943
Give him a little rest. Thomas wrote the first vampire/apollo RTG driver hoping that the whole project would go the route he favours. His work seems now to have been done in vain because it was replaced by a second driver. I can understand this doesn't feel good. And the new driver was written in such a short time (I'm still awed) that I can also understand that somebody who didn't witness its progress would wonder about whether this could be done without peeking at some illegitimate resource.

Just a few hours ago Jason asked when he will finally get the SDcard hardware documentation. He brought it up only yesterday and I wonder whether BigGun & Co can deliver fast enough to keep him happy. If they do, we can probably expect the Sdcard driver by the end of the week... :lol:

It's such a pity for us that his interests have moved away from AROS/Amiga. Just imagine what he could do if this was his main project.



His sugar printer is pretty impressive too.   But yes Jason's work and speed is very impressive(3 days for the RTG driver).
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #180 on: February 29, 2016, 05:52:46 PM »
Quote from: grond;804943
Give him a little rest. Thomas wrote the first vampire/apollo RTG driver hoping that the whole project would go the route he favours. His work seems now to have been done in vain because it was replaced by a second driver. I can understand this doesn't feel good. And the new driver was written in such a short time (I'm still awed) that I can also understand that somebody who didn't witness its progress would wonder about whether this could be done without peeking at some illegitimate resource.

Just a few hours ago Jason asked when he will finally get the SDcard hardware documentation. He brought it up only yesterday and I wonder whether BigGun & Co can deliver fast enough to keep him happy. If they do, we can probably expect the Sdcard driver by the end of the week... :lol:

It's such a pity for us that his interests have moved away from AROS/Amiga. Just imagine what he could do if this was his main project.

A community funded bounty to clone him would be worth every penny! :)
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 05:54:24 PM by nicholas »
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guest11527

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #181 on: February 29, 2016, 06:46:52 PM »
Quote from: grond;804929
As already mentioned before the work of the original authors is respected and acknowledged. They are invited to talk to the apollo team directly.
Which they did not want to...

Quote from: grond;804929
It may not be fair but it is legal. That's an important difference.
Remind me next time you complain about missing drivers or missing initiative for Amiga development.


Quote from: grond;804929
AFAIK the "documentation" came from looking at the open-source implementation in uaegfx.
That's what I guessed, yes. Hence, no official API documentation.


Quote from: grond;804929
This is almost funny. First you use the author's hurt feelings as an argument and then you say they weren't even interested enough to take part in the negotiations and of all possible companies left it to Hyperion to make a deal? And Hyperion itself negotiated with a potential licensee while trying to take over the rights to the product to be licensed? Do you understand what you are saying there? I had to look up the English term because I don't deal with penal law: this could be a case of breach of trust on the side of the proxy ("Untreue" in German).
Not at all. Again, you were not part of the negotiations, so you do not know. But please don't make up nonsense. T&A wanted to license to Hyperion to get a guaranteed stream of income. Hyperion wanted to licence to Gunnar. Everybody was informed on this deal, there was nothing hidden from any party. T&A did not want to make a deal with Gunnar directly. One can speculate why, I don't know. Probably too much hassle. With Hyperion, it would be one-time deal, money paid, deal done. With Gunnar, it means continuously checking the sales numbers and sending invoices. But one way or another: I do not know, but I neither make up my truth.

Quote from: grond;804929
Hyperion pays people? I hope the contractors demand up-front payment.
Guess what.


Quote from: grond;804929
People "like you" but not you? Or do you have an interest in this deal yourself?
I *had* an interest in this deal, though it's surely not a task for a single man. I do not have any interest anymore. What for? It's not that there is any market anymore.

Given the reactions here, there is neither an interest in an updated AmigaOs, nor in updates for P96. So why should I invest any work into such an activity? I've a lot of other things to do these days. These ideas are dead, deceased, ceased to be, and have seen its maker. AmigaOs is finally, completely, utterly dead. Whether that's good or bad is of course everybodies choice.

If the community wants to go AROS, why should I stop them? But then, if everyone is begging for OpenSource, please be also so honest and open the source completely, and with full consequences. That means:

*) Do not build on a proprietary interface. Create your own, and open source that interface. You would probably notice how much work went into it and would appreciate the work of the original authors.

*) Do not build on a proprietary FPGA solution. Open source the solution as well.

I *really* wonder whether Gunnar is fair enough to release the sources of his FPGA, or rather whether he wants to sell his own work on the back of free software developers. I personally would not want to work for free to fill somebody else's pocket. But again, that's just me. As said, I'm an old fashioned guy.
 

Offline AmigaOldskooler

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #182 on: February 29, 2016, 07:14:48 PM »
Amiga 600 with Vampire II running Payback and Foundation in 640x480! :crazy:

http://oldschoolgameblog.com/2016/02/29/amiga-vampire-ii-for-the-amiga-600-in-action/

Offline wawrzon

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #183 on: February 29, 2016, 07:22:42 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;804956

I *really* wonder whether Gunnar is fair enough to release the sources of his FPGA, or rather whether he wants to sell his own work on the back of free software developers. I personally would not want to work for free to fill somebody else's pocket. But again, that's just me. As said, I'm an old fashioned guy.


of course it might be interesting to have open source fpga core. however i dont recall gunnar promising something like that ever and he might have his reasons, its not for me to judge. espacially he is in proud company of almost all hardware developers, including amiga(like) systems. you probably can count the open source hardware projects like tg68 or strims 030 decelerator card on the fingers of one hand.

however there i and probably will be also open source initiatives following. fpga arcade has been announced to be open as example. are they paying license fees for their p96 driver by the way? ao why is gunnar getting all the flak again;)

btw. thomas, i think if anybody feels his rights have been compromised, they will certainly speak up. i think the interested parties have been informed or at least approached. it should be left for them to act.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 07:25:52 PM by wawrzon »
 

Offline DocSnyder

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #184 on: February 29, 2016, 07:39:08 PM »
The question is, if Vampire users really need RTG or P96 in future. First, it is only a framebuffer. You can display higher resolution than on AGA. But thats it. This is usefull for software that came out after Commodore went off. It is for compatibility for some stuff, this is the PAST.

Vampire is the future, SAGA offers higher resolution and more colors than AGA and more. Coming software will make use of it. Why should future software call an Famebuffer/P96/RTG for writing into SAGA, when this programm can access direct SAGA? Is P96 such a beautifull API? I don´t know. Does it already support SAGA? Off course not.

Why paying license fee to Hyperion? And how much? I would pay 2€ per license, not more. Thats enough for old software which is only usefull for some compatibility issue. By the way, I think at the time the Vampire is available to all Amigas, that is the end of PPC-Amiga-OS4...

Maybe  I am wrong, as I can not know all facts.
 

Offline mikej

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #185 on: February 29, 2016, 08:02:28 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;804961
.... fpga arcade has been announced to be open as example. are they paying license fees for their p96 driver by the way? ao why is gunnar getting all the flak again;)

Yes, firmware and a lot of the hardware is open now, including the T68 CPU changes Till and I have been working on (as required by the license). The rest will be shortly once I've finished tidying it up. I'm rolling back some bits I haven't changed much to align with the MIST codebase, then we can share debug resources. I expect the open source CPU to get to 30-40K Dhrystones, which feels pretty speedy running classic systems. If you want to run a more recent OS, I suggest a RasPI3 will run it far better and cheaper than any FPGA solution. I'm far more interested in accurately cloaning and preserving the old hardware.

I have always been keen to find a fair licensing solution, but the old model of a fee per board is not appropriate for a generic platform such as Replay. I also got the feeling certain parties were trying to hold the remaining community hostage, and milk it for whatever they could get.

Like the Apollo driver, mine is built from the UAE driver and P96 public header files. I have support for hardware sprites and a dedicated blitter, but these are trivial from a software perspective.

I've tried to approach the authors, and all I got back was a "we'll get back to you". I assumed they had already come to a deal elsewhere.

/MikeJ
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 08:11:16 PM by mikej »
 

guest11527

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #186 on: February 29, 2016, 08:26:45 PM »
Quote from: DocSnyder;804964
Vampire is the future, SAGA offers higher resolution and more colors than AGA and more. Coming software will make use of it. Why should future software call an Famebuffer/P96/RTG for writing into SAGA, when this programm can access direct SAGA? Is P96 such a beautifull API? I don´t know. Does it already support SAGA? Off course not.

No, P96 is a useful API, and in particular designed to support chips that are designed around the VGA standards. That does not make it particularly beautiful because VGA is not particularly beautiful. It is only useful.  

The point is rather that P96 supports *a lot* of useful functions, and avoids a lot of hassle when interfacing to the legacy graphics system of AmigaOs. As said, a lot of work went into this. Graphics is so much tight around the blitter and copper, it is hard to abstract from it.


Quote from: DocSnyder;804964
Why paying license fee to Hyperion?
Because they pay somebody else to do the work? And do all the paperwork around it? And market it? And defend its rights?  

I understand that as a pure software developer, such tasks seem boring and not worth any money. I afraid, however, reality is a bit different. You would be astonished how much "overhead" you need to run a company, and how small "R&D" is, even in research driven companies.

Quote from: DocSnyder;804964
And how much? I would pay 2€ per license, not more. Thats enough for old software which is only usefull for some compatibility issue.
Actually, that's really a matter of the negotiations, and neither mine not yours to determine. Saying "only useful for some compatibility issue" is really a bit of an "understatement". It is rather necessary to enable rtg graphics on the legacy AmigaOs, and hence is a key issue for accessing the enhanced graphics capabilities. In the end, do you believe that the Vampire finds less buyers if it costs $170 or $160 instead of $150? I don't.

Quote from: DocSnyder;804964
By the way, I think at the time the Vampire is available to all Amigas, that is the end of PPC-Amiga-OS4...
It is currently available for the "small" Amigas, or some of them. There are quite some problems left to be tackled for the big-boxes. I believe I already mentioned the DMA issues. This is a non-trivial problem, and it requires some form of MMU. But that's another issue.
 

Offline Bennymee

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #187 on: February 29, 2016, 08:50:47 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;804969



Actually, that's really a matter of the negotiations, and neither mine not yours to determine. Saying "only useful for some compatibility issue" is really a bit of an "understatement". It is rather necessary to enable rtg graphics on the legacy AmigaOs, and hence is a key issue for accessing the enhanced graphics capabilities. In the end, do you believe that the Vampire finds less buyers if it costs $170 or $160 instead of $150? I don't.



I agree: who would not pay ~30-50 euro for a Kickstart/OS 3.1 / RTG licence on a sd-card for the Vampire, just to plug the card in your Amiga and have the thing very easy running.
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Offline HaukeVB

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #188 on: February 29, 2016, 09:14:47 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;804956
Given the reactions here, there is neither an interest in an updated AmigaOs, nor in updates for P96. So why should I invest any work into such an activity? I've a lot of other things to do these days. These ideas are dead, deceased, ceased to be, and have seen its maker. AmigaOs is finally, completely, utterly dead. Whether that's good or bad is of course everybodies choice.

I do not see it as a choice. For me it is a necessity. Please understand, I for one am very greatful. Even as a developer, I can only guess at the amount of work that has gone into designing and implementing AOS and P96.
But as you demonstrated yourself, legal issues surrounding Amiga are way too complex. We do need to stay clear of it.

If copyrights are violated, we need to fix this. But I wonder, if what you claim is true about APIs, even implementing the instruction set of an 68k CPU can never be legal... so all of this would be pointless...

Quote from: Thomas Richter;804956
I *really* wonder whether Gunnar is fair enough to release the sources of his FPGA, or rather whether he wants to sell his own work on the back of free software developers.

So, if Gunnar does not open-source his core, then any time spent developing AROS is not waisted. And looking at AROS, it still needs a lot of work...

We can not force him, and IMHO it is fine if he does not. Linux runs on Intel chips, which are not open-sourced and yes, there is a movement to develop open hardware, but it does not matter too much.

I for one congratulate him and his team on the apparent success and hope no legal battles destroy his plans.... :)

Quote from: Thomas Richter;804956
I personally would not want to work for  free to fill somebody else's pocket. But again, that's just me. As said,  I'm an old fashioned guy.

I fully understand where you are coming from. I used to think that way. But when it comes to a hobby-machine and a comunity-effort, it is paid by other means... and yes some will benefit (see http://www.ares-shop.de/) but that's fine, as long as it is permitted by the license.
| A1500, 2630, Merlin, XCalibur, Nexus, Emplant, 2320...
 

Offline Faerytale

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #189 on: February 29, 2016, 10:44:57 PM »
Im also in the Vampire 2 owners club I love this card!! It doesnt get hot at all and speed is amazing!!!

Many thanx to the FANTASTIC Apollo-team!

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=88EFB8D498C45100!305&authkey=!AMVlKx6qap9_Ju8&v=3&ithint=photo%2cJPG
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 10:47:31 PM by Faerytale »
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #190 on: February 29, 2016, 10:46:28 PM »
Quote from: Bennymee;804971
I agree: who would not pay ~30-50 euro for a Kickstart/OS 3.1 / RTG licence on a sd-card for the Vampire, just to plug the card in your Amiga and have the thing very easy running.

Who in their right mind would pay twice for something they already own?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Niding

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #191 on: February 29, 2016, 11:08:04 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;804978
Who in their right mind would pay twice for something they already own?


Depends what that extra expense entails.

170-180 for 060++ performance is still dirt cheap.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #192 on: February 29, 2016, 11:34:46 PM »
Quote from: Niding;804981
Depends what that extra expense entails.

170-180 for 060++ performance is still dirt cheap.


if one is acustomed to os4 hardware level prices.

then + 50$ for network stack
+50$ for usb stack
+50$ for icon set
...
+50$ for desktop backgrounds pack
...
 

Offline Niding

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Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #193 on: February 29, 2016, 11:40:17 PM »
You forgot £70 for tea and buiscuits.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #194 from previous page: March 01, 2016, 12:01:21 AM »
Quote from: Niding;804981
Depends what that extra expense entails.

170-180 for 060++ performance is still dirt cheap.

There's no way I'd pay for a bundled kickstart 3.1 when every machine I own already has it.

An empty flash ROM with a bundled patch for the ROM and a copy of transrom is what it should come with. Or AROS by default.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini