Amiga Demo Community

[scuzzb494]

Hi
 
I am currently going through endless Amiga demo files to adf them and store in a format I can refer to. Whilst I have been doing all this I have been struck by the enormous volume of work undertaken by the Amiga community of the day. The demos are published by a PD house which was no doubt created out of someone’s  bedroom. And yet from that single venture there were links to a thriving active community, all producing work to promote on the humble dd disk. The disk was the equivalent of a modern blog post, routing not only individuals but whole groups of Amiga users, all creating music, demo’s, artwork etc to share with one another. And their efforts are tangible, viewable, listenable, enjoyable still. The lists of those active and celebrating their Amiga groups is quite massive. Sometimes the demos run endlessly listing all those involved.
 
Looking back at the demos created on the Amiga they are like those hollow distant ghostly echoes from a distant past. The demos do not really serve any purpose now other than for their nostalgic content. However, they do symbolise a willingness of a community to be creative and to celebrate a common interest. I have no idea just how wonderfully productive any of the mass community activities are these days that use social media or MMOs. But, there is still a desire today to entertain and to interact on a massive level. My only sad reflection is whether the world would be a better place if that was ‘indeed’ used for creative good with real tangible substance, as celebrated by the simple Amiga PD Demo disk.

[gertsy]

Melancholy.  I never ever did find that PD "fasty boots" game.  Sigh.

In the words of Roy Batty;  "All these memories will be lost..... like tears in the rain..."

[scuzzb494]

Melancholy.  I never ever did find that PD "fasty boots" game.  Sigh.

In the words of Roy Batty;  "All these memories will be lost..... like tears in the rain..."

I'll add it my list. I spend quite a reasonable amount of time finding PD disks for folk. This morning I was able to supply a copy of Pace Demo Disk 2 to someone. I keep a list by the machine and when I find the PD it's like finding buries treasure. Funny that on that disk is the song ' I should be so lucky '.

Hopefully more and more sites will feature PD disks so we can get more and even more into circulation.

[Britelite]

The demos are published by a PD house which was no doubt created out of someone’s  bedroom.

PD houses didn't "publish" demos, they only took demos that were already freely available and sold them for a profit.

My only sad reflection is whether the world would be a better place if that was ‘indeed’ used for creative good with real tangible substance, as celebrated by the simple Amiga PD Demo disk.

You'll be glad to know that demos are still being produced for the Amiga (and most other platforms)

[scuzzb494]

PD houses didn't "publish" demos, they only took demos that were already freely available and sold them for a profit.


You'll be glad to know that demos are still being produced for the Amiga (and most other platforms)

Published refers to the way they were distributed by the PD house under their label and published in the various Amiga magazines of the day as their own product. eg 17-bit. There was very very rarely any recognition of the originating artist on the disk. The route out for demos was through a PD house generally. The various Amiga groups used this route to get their work out into the world. And the various magazines like Format, CU, AUI, Computing would regularly have many pages of the works which only generally listed a PDHouse number under the various catagories. The PD House was the essentail process and were the ones publishing the disks or publicizing the works.

As to todays demo scene, I guess it has to find an active interest for the works, have some relevance in todays world and find a route out into the world. Very much like the PD Houses. What could be useful is a publisher, possibly.

' You can write a book, but I doubt you will publish it '

Good luck.

[Niding]

The issue, back in the days, you had to be part of "swapping" groups to get quick access to Amiga software (demos ...and ..warez).
In the beginning I did actually order some PD from 17 Bit, but eventually I got tons of stuff via friends aka swapping. Then you had BBS/modems.

Today there is no need for this. Pouet.net got most of what you need. There are also very active youtube channels posting the new productions (and old), like RetroDemoScene.

I guess you could add to that resevoir of preserving both old and new demos thru your website. The more, the merrier. I like to have software on my old harddrive, so adfs as suppliment to youtube/pouet is great.

[Britelite]

As to todays demo scene, I guess it has to find an active interest for the works, have some relevance in todays world and find a route out into the world. Very much like the PD Houses. What could be useful is a publisher, possibly.

They didn't have publishers back then, so why would they need them now

'You can write a book, but I doubt you will publish it'

You don't need a publisher when you release something to be distributed for free, just like back in the days. Like I said, the PD houses plain ripped off the demo scene, and very, very few groups actually wanted the PD houses to sell their works.

(edit)A good comparison in modern days could be selling books made entirely out of wikipedia articles (which some companies actually do).

[amigakid]

The Demo scene was great!  I went to your website, man that is a ton of Amigas you have, very very nice man.  My collection seems so small in comparison!

[scuzzb494]

They didn't have publishers back then, so why would they need them now


You don't need a publisher when you release something to be distributed for free, just like back in the days. Like I said, the PD houses plain ripped off the demo scene, and very, very few groups actually wanted the PD houses to sell their works.

(edit)A good comparison in modern days could be selling books made entirely out of wikipedia articles (which some companies actually do).

Sorry but publish means to publicize and the PD houses did just that. You do need an outlet for your creative works. The world of today is internet based and very different. The point being that the various Amiga groups were very remote from other community groups. They were enjoying their creative demo making and wanted not only to share their work but make themselves known. The PD Houses were the outlet for that work and they took the base demo and then labelled it with their own PD logo and then published the lists in the various magazines. They were publishing the works. You would need to buy the actual disk from the PD House to enjoy the content. And only when you put the disk in the drive and let it run would you see who was responsible and who created the disk.

As an aside... if you go through a lot of the 17-bit CDs you will see great gaps in the listings. That is because disks like say the Miller Lite demo were removed for fear of copyright issues. The PD House who published both the disks and CDs were very worried of being taken to court.

So you see the PD House being the publisher was reponsible for the circulation of the disks and also took legal responsibility. There was nobody else publishing the work.

As for today, the world is a very different place and yes you can promote your own work and hope to gain popularity that way. The issue is still a simple one.... back in the day of the demo there was no real social networking as we have today, the computers were in their infancy and users were pretty much absorbed in their computer activities. The demo was used not only to promote the individual but also the creative strengths of the computer. Demo makers were trying to push the boundaries out and in doing celebrate the fact.

Today most that use an Amiga do it for the fun aspect of using old technology. It also lets those that once used the kit to enjoy memories of their past. The demo does not have any real relavance today and I doubt there are many that actually refer to them for new and inspiring stimulation. I applaud anyone that creates anything with the Amiga these days. The well is sadly pretty dry in truth. There isn't a day that goes by that I do not use my Amigas, and or involve myself in the community in some way. However, I hold to the view that the Amiga is of the past and dwells in the present as a symbol of a better time in computing, when, there was an active user base with real purpose and dedication. Nothing like it has ever been replicated and never will.

Enjoy your demo making, I do look forward to adding any Amiga related works to the collection. I do love the Amiga and will always love the Amiga. Still a great source of joy.

Not sure how big a demo collection you have but would certainly recommend you get hold of a few of the MASH disks and read all the contents on the disks and read fully the intros on the numerous demo disks to get a good understanding of how the way the User Groups were interacting with the demo creators. You appreciate no doubt that the demo was generally only one part of a larger Mega Demo as they often called it so you have various levels of activity. Fantastic stuff I have to say... and for me I am thankful of all those PD Houses cus without them I would have nothing. How else would the work have gotten into circulation. I am very lucky to be able to help folk wanting disks, and trust me they always refer to a PD House reference.

Good talking to you... back to the demo library listing... playing a rendition of Smooth Criminal at the moment. Cool.

[scuzzb494]

The Demo scene was great!  I went to your website, man that is a ton of Amigas you have, very very nice man.  My collection seems so small in comparison!

I have been collecting computers for a long time now. I have always been very fascinated by them and still own my very first ZX81. I sit in my workshop surrounded by two A4000s, an A500, A600 and three A1200s. I have connected CDs, ZIPs, digitisers etc and they are on every day. It is a source of real joy that I can simply rotate on my chair and pull up any game, any piece of software and use the Amiga as it was always intended. I have original monitors and original gear and it all works. And long may it do so.

Saying that I have numerous other computers also active and sorry... er I do play modern MMOs and dabble on the Playstation. So not all in the past.

I have stopped collecting now. I have no more space. I wish I could hold more. Maybe one day someone else will enjoy my Amiga Heaven. I do hope so.

[AmigaOldskooler]

Hi there scuzzb494,

I must say I disagree with you concerning PD houses and the need for demo groups to have a "publisher".

As a former mega-swapper in the 90's with over 150 contacts internationally, I can safely say that groups had no problems getting their stuff out to people inside or outside The Scene. We swappers lived for spreading demos, intros, disk mags and so forth - it was a lifestyle.

I mailtraded floppy-disks with hot/new stuff with people from Australia, Poland, Italy, Spain, UK and so forth. I used to receive apx. 5 parcels with stuff per day. If I got a new demo, I'd send it out through the network and those I shipped it to spread it further to hundreds of others. It was a great system and very fun. Got a lot of friends all over the world because of this. The stuff then got spread to people not swapping themselves, like friends, neighbours, at school and so forth. The reach was in the thousands and thousands. A very good demo could be found in most users disk-boxes.

You also had BBS's that hosted demos. One job on The Scene was to be a modem-trader. These guys uploaded new demos to BBS's all around the world. They then got downloaded and spread yet again.

PD-houses could haved served as an entry point for some to get a new demo, but I can safely say that this stuff did not need PD-houses to be spread.

We also had copy-/demoparties were people met and exchanged stuff.

Britelite is very famous on The Scene btw and has been active for years. He knows this stuff in-depth.

I also, if I remember correctly, recall Kefrens - famous Danish group - having a fight with a PD House for charging money for one of their demos.. am I correct here?

And.. The Scene is still going strong. There has been many Amiga releases the last year, a lot of nice stuff. And groups you are talking about from back in the days, some of them are still alive and kicking! I'm still in a couple of groups, but not very active these days.

Have a look here at Pouet.net for Amiga releases 2016 and 2015: http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php

[Britelite]

I also, if I remember correctly, recall Kefrens - famous Danish group - having a fight with a PD House for charging money for one of their demos.. am I correct here?

Well, several groups had messages in their demos stating that the demos may not be sold

Kefrens also had a message in Desert Dream stating that the demo may not be sold for a profit without consent from the group

[klx300r]

I've always loved Amiga demos and my 1200T is mainly used for playing them:) Can anyone recommend 060 specific demos.

[Britelite]

I've always loved Amiga demos and my 1200T is mainly used for playing them:) Can anyone recommend 060 specific demos.

Pretty much all AGA-demos made after 1998 could be said to be 060 specific

[scuzzb494]

Hi there scuzzb494,

I must say I disagree with you concerning PD houses and the need for demo groups to have a "publisher".

As a former mega-swapper in the 90's with over 150 contacts internationally, I can safely say that groups had no problems getting their stuff out to people inside or outside The Scene. We swappers lived for spreading demos, intros, disk mags and so forth - it was a lifestyle.

I mailtraded floppy-disks with hot/new stuff with people from Australia, Poland, Italy, Spain, UK and so forth. I used to receive apx. 5 parcels with stuff per day. If I got a new demo, I'd send it out through the network and those I shipped it to spread it further to hundreds of others. It was a great system and very fun. Got a lot of friends all over the world because of this. The stuff then got spread to people not swapping themselves, like friends, neighbours, at school and so forth. The reach was in the thousands and thousands. A very good demo could be found in most users disk-boxes.

You also had BBS's that hosted demos. One job on The Scene was to be a modem-trader. These guys uploaded new demos to BBS's all around the world. They then got downloaded and spread yet again.

PD-houses could haved served as an entry point for some to get a new demo, but I can safely say that this stuff did not need PD-houses to be spread.

We also had copy-/demoparties were people met and exchanged stuff.

Britelite is very famous on The Scene btw and has been active for years. He knows this stuff in-depth.

I also, if I remember correctly, recall Kefrens - famous Danish group - having a fight with a PD House for charging money for one of their demos.. am I correct here?

And.. The Scene is still going strong. There has been many Amiga releases the last year, a lot of nice stuff. And groups you are talking about from back in the days, some of them are still alive and kicking! I'm still in a couple of groups, but not very active these days.

Have a look here at Pouet.net for Amiga releases 2016 and 2015: http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php

As a humble user of the Amiga from the getgo I have enjoyed collecting disks for a very long time. I was very remote from the user groups and such and to be honest enjoyed my very solitary interest right up until the 2000's. I bought regular magazines and obtained my software from shops and the like. However, as the Amiga scene started to dry up the only source of software and the like was through the PD houses. So looking at it from an Active Amiga user the demo's that I received were either from the 'published' lists in magazines or actually from cover disks. In truth most were from my own creations.

The point about published lists is very very important to me because as I collate and build my collections I need some reference point. A disk that simply says ' blank ' or uninitialised is of no use. The fact that a PDHouse would label many disks and order them by number is very useful. I get numerous requests for ... ' er that disk with the rotating spheres like a snake on it and scrolling words that say ... blah blah ' music by Joy Division. So what do I do. The disks are a nightmare.. So I copy and label them. I read and review them. Most are utterly junk, but there are the odd gems.

I say all that because I wasn't part of any swapping group and I guess I reflect a core element of the Amiga users that literally didn't even get involved. However to make this process work and to be understood and to collate now you are hard put to find a recognised source of listed data. The only people that 'published' anything in a recognised format appear to be the PDHouses, god bless them.

Scuse my ignorance of the subject. However, MegaDemo II from 'X' abusing fellow users with disgusting language, 'today' on a disk that only self boots from my A500 and stalls unless I click the mouse and let it run again is tricky to identify, catagorise and store for future use. The saving grace for me is the 'published' list and the label and the a number and maybe a description. The message may be on the disk but its a pig trying to get there. In truth its relevant to the period and was not structured to give any order. Dunno.

By the way I do hold the view that demo creators 'needed' a publisher. What went on in the background may well be the reason the vast majority of works are going to get lost. At the base was probably the same thing that was rooted into scanmastery, and that is the legal issue of the product. Dunno.

Thanks for the comments. Shows that Amiga users did occupy different worlds. As for today, I am not really interested. I only dwell in the past. I will continue as I am doing today wading through endless dms files with no label trying to organise and label stuff so I can find it again. Now playing ' The Mighty THR Deadly Persuits 36. F5 Contex Divine Intervention ' Hope you did OK in your exams... so funny. Great bit of music.

Just wish 17 bit hadn't deleted all the disks that had copyright issues or I may just have had a more healthy stock. Also... disks don't last and a lot are falling over. Ar hum.