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Offline jupo42Topic starter

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A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« on: January 03, 2016, 12:02:16 AM »
Hey all,

Has anyone had success with the "official" Cloanto 3.X ROMS on an A3000D?

Everything was fine with 2.0 before I ordered these chips, but after getting them installed, now every floppy I have comes up as a non-DOS disk. For the life of me I haven't been able to find one of my external floppy drives yet, but a spare internal drive did the exact same thing, and again, it was just working perfectly before the upgrade.

Any ideas on something I might have messed up in the process? I can't boot up with the 3.X disk set, I can't copy the workbench.library onto the HD...
A3000 - 030/25, Toaster, ??? - rebuild in process
2x A2000 being cannibalized and rebuilt
A1000 - Rejuvinator, AGA2000, AdSPEED/IDE, 4GB CF HD, 1MB chip, 0.5MB fast, OS3.1
 

Offline Castellen

Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 04:01:10 AM »
Quote from: jupo42;801236

Has anyone had success with the "official" Cloanto 3.X ROMS on an A3000D?



Unsure if this is at all related to your issue, but I had a customer recently send an A3000D board for repair with some new Cloanto v40.55 EPROMs.  Ignoring the original faults which were fixed, the board worked fine using a set of v40.68 test ROMs or standard OS2.x masked ROMs.  But with the official Cloanto ROMs, operation was very unstable and erratic.  Frequent crash/lockup using bare basic Workbench or even the early startup screen.  I don't think I got to the point of testing floppy disk access in this state.  

The ROM data appeared to read out OK, so there didn't seem to be any obvious programming issues with them as the usual ASCII strings looked normal, seemed to be more timing related.  Even with the ROM timing jumpers set to the longest possible time, it was still unusable.  Operation was even less stable with any faster ROM access timing configured, often failing to even get to the early startup screen.

I wasn't sure of the history of these new EPROMs, perhaps they had been damaged in some way or one of the devices had a legitimate fault from new, so I suggested the customer contact Cloanto for a replacement set under warranty.  Haven't heard the outcome from this yet as it was a fairly recent job.
 

Offline jupo42Topic starter

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2016, 09:04:43 PM »
Thanks. Got an external drive hooked up and the same issue. Ripped it all down and put the 2.0 ROMS back (what a pain - the A2k is so much easier to get to), and the drives work fine once again. *SIGH* Guess I get to send the chips back.
A3000 - 030/25, Toaster, ??? - rebuild in process
2x A2000 being cannibalized and rebuilt
A1000 - Rejuvinator, AGA2000, AdSPEED/IDE, 4GB CF HD, 1MB chip, 0.5MB fast, OS3.1
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 09:22:24 PM »
Dumb question, but what's an  "official" Cloanto 3.X ROM?  Never heard one referred to in this way.  Is this something someone burned with the data from Amiga Forever?

FYI AmigaKit has 3.1 ROM's for A3000 for $29.  Probably easier and save yourself some headache.  Good luck!
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline jupo42Topic starter

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2016, 09:59:55 PM »
Cloanto made updated ROMs for each system based on the work they'd done with Amiga Forever. They call it 3.X because it includes a lot of the 3.5/3.9 fixes. Their license to distribute the OS includes being able to sell physical copies, so even though it is pretty much a burned EPROM with a professional label on top, it's the closest to an official ROM that's being made currently.

Like the A4000T it moves workbench.library to disk to make room for the patches.

Really really wish I hadn't lost my two A2065s. Null modem transfers back and forth from the PC are painful.
A3000 - 030/25, Toaster, ??? - rebuild in process
2x A2000 being cannibalized and rebuilt
A1000 - Rejuvinator, AGA2000, AdSPEED/IDE, 4GB CF HD, 1MB chip, 0.5MB fast, OS3.1
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2016, 10:06:49 PM »
Quote from: jupo42;801294
Cloanto made updated ROMs for each system based on the work they'd done with Amiga Forever. They call it 3.X because it includes a lot of the 3.5/3.9 fixes. Their license to distribute the OS includes being able to sell physical copies, so even though it is pretty much a burned EPROM with a professional label on top, it's the closest to an official ROM that's being made currently.

Like the A4000T it moves workbench.library to disk to make room for the patches.

Really really wish I hadn't lost my two A2065s. Null modem transfers back and forth from the PC are painful.


Not sure that workbench library should be relocated as well as having AGA stuff on an A3000.
Something funny here.
 

Offline Castellen

Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 10:35:00 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;801291
Dumb question, but what's an  "official" Cloanto 3.X ROM?  Never heard one referred to in this way.  Is this something someone burned with the data from Amiga Forever?



No, he's referring to physical EPROMs which were purchased from a legitmate source and have Cloanto labels on the devices that have a licence code which you can register on the Cloanto website to download a copy of that ROM image.



@jupo42
I just noticed that I happened to still have a copy of the data I read out of the v40.55 ROMs in question when diagnosing the said issue.  The data is certainly valid as a checksum recalculation matches the ROM data.  Besides, the machine would red screen otherwise.  And I got the v40.55 image working on UAE and floppy support works.  I could flash the image into a pair of 55nSec test devices and check on actual A3000 hardware, but I suspect it'll be fine.  Probably nothing wrong with the contents.

Just a theory at the moment, so don't go giving anyone grief, but it's possible that the EPROMs being sourced for these Cloanto labelled ROM sets don't actually meet the minimum access timing for the A3000.  The EPROM access speed is shown in a section of the part number etched on them, e.g. 27C4000-12 = 120nSec.  I didn't see what was on the said suspect devices, as I didn't want to peel off the sticker and void the customer's warranty.

In saying that, I've seen a number of instances where grey market component vendors alter the manufacturer's laser etched device part numbers, so you're actually getting something different to what's shown on the part.  Again, I have no evidence to say that this is the case here.

Contact the place you bought them from in the first instance.  If multiple customers are having the same issue, then they need to look at their source of blank parts.  Feel free to refer them to this thread or pass on my contact details.  It's in everyone's best interest to sort this out if it's going to be an ongoing problem.

http://amiga.serveftp.net
 

Offline jupo42Topic starter

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 06:17:03 PM »
Quote from: Castellen;801298

Just a theory at the moment, so don't go giving anyone grief, but it's possible that the EPROMs being sourced for these Cloanto labelled ROM sets don't actually meet the minimum access timing for the A3000.


I thought about that too, but since I've got a 030/25 system, I don't think I can slow down the timing any further than the default, as far as real world testing.

I'll report it to the store and to Cloanto, but I'm not super upset since they were pretty cheap, so is there anyone who wants to dig deeper into this, either with another A3k or testing equipment I don't have?
A3000 - 030/25, Toaster, ??? - rebuild in process
2x A2000 being cannibalized and rebuilt
A1000 - Rejuvinator, AGA2000, AdSPEED/IDE, 4GB CF HD, 1MB chip, 0.5MB fast, OS3.1
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2016, 10:59:08 PM »
Hi, as far as I know the latest Cloanto kickstart rom are v45.61 not 40.55. Perhaps your v40.55 is an old build.

Anyway, even in this case (v45.61), Cloanto has provided little information about them. There is not a changelog and a mention of the responsible developer that did the rom build, so unluckily you are on your own on this. I suggest going back to CBM v40.68 which has been stable and thoroughly tested and we actually know what is inside and how to fix its shortcomings.
 

Offline Dejavu

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2016, 09:54:20 AM »
Hi jupo42 do you have any news on this topic?

By the way, i have same issue with ROM 3.X Amiga 1200 (two chips) from Cloanto.

I have two floppy drives that are connected to my A1200. One gotek as internal, one real floopy driver as external. None of them can read floopies after installing Cloanto ROM 3.X

the error message i get is " non-DOS disk "

so i opened a problem ticket to the seller and waiting their response.
Amiga1200/Apollo1260@80MHz/RapidRoadUSB/IndivisionAGA
Amiga500+/ACA500/ACA1233/IndivisionECS
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 09:48:22 PM »
Maybe exec.library 45.21 is the one to blame.

If you have exec.library v45.20 you can try to load it with loadmodule, and see if it fixes the issue.

Jus a thought :)


Update:

I have just been told that the matter is being investigated :)

So a solution might be just around the corner.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 11:01:03 PM by Gulliver »
 

Offline idc

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2016, 06:45:03 AM »
I have a similar problem with Cloanto 3.X ROMs. I have an Apollo 1230 fitted. I have found that disabling the Fast RAM on the 1230 (either by setting the jumper or by removing the SIMMs) then the floppy drive problem goes away. So with 3.X ROMs, you can have Fast RAM, or a working floppy drive, but not both.

Definitely a 3.X ROM issue. It's all fine if I go back to 3.1 ROMs.
 

Offline jdupuis

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2016, 10:43:24 PM »
Quote from: Gulliver;801379
Hi, as far as I know the latest Cloanto kickstart rom are v45.61 not 40.55. Perhaps your v40.55 is an old build.

Anyway, even in this case (v45.61), Cloanto has provided little information about them. There is not a changelog and a mention of the responsible developer that did the rom build, so unluckily you are on your own on this. I suggest going back to CBM v40.68 which has been stable and thoroughly tested and we actually know what is inside and how to fix its shortcomings.


Hi,

I'm new to the Amiga.Org community but not new to Amiga. Background: I have an A3000 with the A3640. This required the 40.68 ROMS for Floppy and SCSI to function correctly along with the new revision custom chips. I was lucky to get a hold of the 40.72 ROMS. (Best Amiga Day, that day!)
I have a second A3000 with the 40.68 ROMS (sold by SoftHut). I could easily put the old ROMS (2.04) back in. Just an offer. I just don't know how to go about sending, trading or selling parts here. Your name is on them if you want.

Cheers!!
 

Offline jdupuis

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2016, 10:47:30 PM »
jupo42

You live in AZ. I can send 'em from LA. Besides 40.68 ROMS, I may have some of the upgrade rev. chips as well. Have to check the stash.

Cheers!!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 10:57:47 PM by jdupuis »
 

Offline Cosmos Amiga

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Re: A3000D, Cloanto 3.X, bad floppy?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2016, 08:32:19 AM »
I guess I found the issue : into _IVPORTS, it's UW in the structure, not L...

Another little bug in REVISION, it's $15 and not $14...


Since there is no history.txt, here I am :

- bug .L in _IVPORTS
- bug in the REVISION number
- very tiny optimizations here and here (st, pea, bcc, movem...)
- __scanBounds_512 and related simplified
- IntAckFix included (Bert Jahn)
- fix tst.b R_Alert (Harry Sintonen)

(Note for some professionnal trollers like kolla : I have nothing to do with this new Kickstart 3.X)




:)