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AuthorTopic: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"  (Read 18920 times)

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Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #315 on: October 12, 2016, 12:55:10 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;815146
I have to say this is rather absurd lol. cloning a board that just came out. do you realize how much money it would take for you just to do one prototype?

You know there are companies in the far east that specialise in board cloning? It's not that expensive to get a board made if you have access to the equipment (like CSG/MOS were able to turn round prototype chip in a couple of weeks. There is likely a reference design that could be tweaked anyway.

Why is it absurd doing it when it comes out? The only reason it would be absurd is if someone doesn't think it's worth the effort, because they couldn't do it cheap enough or there aren't enough people to buy them. Then they'll go on and clone something else.

3com networking products were big a few years ago, although they tried to keep it quiet for some reason.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 12:59:21 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline magnetic

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #316 on: October 12, 2016, 01:05:08 AM »
my point is the board will be made by a reliable company for a fair price why in the world are we talking about chinese clones? lol
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline blakespot

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #317 on: October 17, 2016, 05:07:13 PM »
I saw mention that in a AmiWest video Trevor indicated Tabor would sell for 400 Euro.

Was there any indication of a timeframe for availability?
:: ByteCellar.com - The Vintage Computing Weblog
:: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #318 on: October 17, 2016, 07:59:00 PM »
Quote from: magnetic;815149
my point is the board will be made by a reliable company for a fair price why in the world are we talking about chinese clones? lol


Because they say they are selling it at cost, so they aren't making money on it. This means there isn't going to be money available to invest in pushing down the cost. To me it would seem more logical to let the market compete for the business.

Of course if nobody is interested in competing then it's a moot point. But as it runs Linux then there is a market outside of AmigaOS, if it can be made cheap enough. Which at the current price it isn't cheap enough.
 

Offline kamelito

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #319 on: October 17, 2016, 08:42:36 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;815435
Because they say they are selling it at cost, so they aren't making money on it. This means there isn't going to be money available to invest in pushing down the cost. To me it would seem more logical to let the market compete for the business.

Of course if nobody is interested in competing then it's a moot point. But as it runs Linux then there is a market outside of AmigaOS, if it can be made cheap enough. Which at the current price it isn't cheap enough.

This is the only choice left, try to sell an AmigaOne as cheap as possible in the hope that Amigans will buy software. I suppose that their Store is working well, so the more AmigaOne users the more they expect to sell software.
Software will be the driving force here not HW. They could also sell to 68k users being under emulation, Amiga or FPGA.
It is the best thing they can do IMO.
Kamelito
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #320 on: October 17, 2016, 10:50:00 PM »
Quote from: kamelito;815437
This is the only choice left, try to sell an AmigaOne as cheap as possible in the hope that Amigans will buy software. I suppose that their Store is working well, so the more AmigaOne users the more they expect to sell software.
Software will be the driving force here not HW. They could also sell to 68k users being under emulation, Amiga or FPGA.
It is the best thing they can do IMO.
Kamelito
 
 Uh yeah...that is the purpose of having a computer system in the first place, to run software.
 So, not to keep beating that drum, but that is our weak area, availability of software.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline magnetic

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #321 on: October 18, 2016, 03:12:43 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;815444
Uh yeah...that is the purpose of having a computer system in the first place, to run software.
 So, not to keep beating that drum, but that is our weak area, availability of software.


This has been a problem since the eyetech amiga one xe days. They just keep doing it. Project moana should have been the road for os4. Good news is now thanks to Trevor and Aeon there is an affordable NG board in a cool form factor.
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #322 on: October 18, 2016, 05:11:49 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;815458
This has been a problem since the eyetech amiga one xe days. They just keep doing it. Project moana should have been the road for os4. Good news is now thanks to Trevor and Aeon there is an affordable NG board in a cool form factor.


Yeah, it just bugs me that its not the best choice of cpus.
Then again, someone else will start chiming in that its not an ARM, or an X86, or yadda yadda yadda.

A micro itx board should be kind of neat.
And $400< - that's a better pricing model.

Of course, being as much of a fanatic as any of the rest of you, you all know what I want to buy.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline magnetic

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #323 on: October 18, 2016, 07:00:57 AM »
What do you want to buy? the x5000? If i didn't have a peg2 id consider it. I have to say again though i love the small form factor of tabor.
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #324 on: October 18, 2016, 08:16:44 AM »
Quote from: kamelito;815437
Software will be the driving force here not HW.

That is how they hope to make money, but aiming your market at people with a passion for a retro computer means that is an uphill struggle.

I accept that it's cheaper than previous ng amiga boards. When you compare it to the rest of the market, it has a weak price to performance ratio.

The IBM PC only became the defacto standard because of clones.
 

Offline OlafS3

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #325 on: October 18, 2016, 10:25:15 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;815136
I wonder what would happen if people started cloning the boards. They are selling them at cost, so they shouldn't be upset. As long as users can buy a separate license for amigaos 4 of course.

 Why should anyone clone this board?
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #326 on: October 18, 2016, 02:21:14 PM »
Quote from: magnetic;815460
What do you want to buy? the x5000? If i didn't have a peg2 id consider it. I have to say again though i love the small form factor of tabor.


Yeah Mag, I want the best, and I don't anticipate buying another PC system after that.
And the only itx case I have sitting around is an aluminum cube that's surprisingly large (its got room for a CD/DVD and at least 2 3.5" hard drives).
It would be overkill for Tabor.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #327 on: October 18, 2016, 02:30:23 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;815462
That is how they hope to make money, but aiming your market at people with a passion for a retro computer means that is an uphill struggle.

I accept that it's cheaper than previous ng amiga boards. When you compare it to the rest of the market, it has a weak price to performance ratio.

The IBM PC only became the defacto standard because of clones.


Pity that too, as it was a pretty lousy standard.
And actually, there were a lot of market factors at play.
For one, the buyers impressions that somehow that platform had some kind of magic (possibly imbued by those three letters I-B-M).

Apple succeeded without clones, then again, in a weird way its become a clone.

And that is the real choice we face, do we accept the defacto standard, or like other alternatives (ie ARM) do we continue to do our own thing.

As we stand no real chance of challenging the current market domination, I'd rather do the latter, as the former would simply be based on boring commodity goods.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline JimmiG

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #328 on: October 18, 2016, 07:09:57 PM »
Well the "IBM PC standard" of the 80's/90's is so detached from the current standards of modern PC's that they really don't have anything in common.

ISA, VESA, even PCI were slow, inefficient, error prone and difficult to deal with (IRQ conflicts etc. I remember spending weeks trying to get a UART ISA card to work in my mom's 386). However these days we use PCI-Express, USB 3, SATA, UEFI, HDMI, NVMe etc. which are essentially legacy-free. Those standards weren't even conceptualized back then, and IBM has very little, if anything, to do with them. It's really not the "IBM PC" standard, it's just "the standard" these days.

Ironically, the same standards are used by Apple Macs (you can build a "Hackintosh" out of off the shelves PC parts) and of course even by AmigaOne systems - we plug in SATA drives, PCI-Express sound cards and Radeon video cards, DDR3 DIMMs or SO-DIMMs etc. The only differentiating factor is really the instruction set of the CPU, which only really matters if you're writing compiles or programming in Assembler.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #329 on: October 18, 2016, 08:04:01 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;815467
Why should anyone clone this board?


To make money?